Still a Virgin
If you are one of the people who thinks I whine to much you will not like this post so do not read it.
After my last post I was strong for a while. It helped very much that I had made my decisions about what I want to do. The decision to have sex if an appropriate chance falls in my path helped because at least I know who I am and what my choices would be. I do not any more have the weight of confusion on me. If a man comes along who could be my husband I will go down that path to it's fullest. And if a man comes along who could be a good sexual partner for me I will go down that path without being confused about what I want to do. I have decided and that feels right.
It does not feel good to realize now many months later that perhaps neither of those opportunities will ever come into my life. I may never have a chance to make the choice.
I am ready for a "friends with benefits" situation but do not know how to arrange or ask for such a thing. The men who are my friends are too religious for me to ask this of them and besides if they were attracted to me I assume they would have wanted to date me. I do not want to hear from another man I respect and like that he is not attracted to me.
The men who are not my friends but might be open to a sexual relationship that is non-religious men ( I have met some from internet dating) freak out when they find out I have never had sex. They do not want the responsibility of being my "first" or they assume I must have strange sexual issues they do not want to be involved with, which might be true but I do not have a way to find out.
Some readers warned this might be the case, they warned that men in their 40's who are not religious, by the time they reach their 40's they do not necessarily want just sex anymore they want a real relationship, and the idea of a relationship with me feels too intense for them especially since religion is still very important to me.
I do not have the social or sexual tools to solve this problem. Like I said before I do not want to have sex with someone I will never see again or someone I have to pay. I do accept that if I do not meet someone within those limits I will just have to be a virgin when I die. I would rather be a virgin than do something outside the limits I know would make me happier. But it is hard to accept that I do not know how to find someone within those limits. I feel like a baby flailing around with no idea how to do things that come naturally to everyone else.
Also, I have not found someone to date (as in a real relationship that involves love and maybe later marriage) either. It is not easy to be an Orthodox woman in her 40s and it is even more difficult if you are not slender enough. I am offered to be set up perhaps twice or three times a year and usually the matchmakers start with an apology that they know the man does not meet even my few basic criteria. I usually agree to meet the man anyway or at least speak on the phone because I want to be open minded and I do not have many choices but like I have said before I do not want to get married just for the sake of being married, I want to get married because I love the person and he loves me, and. . . well I am trying to be open minded but it is very very difficult.
I am realizing that there is a very very real chance that I might never know in this lifetime what it feels like to be fully in love and that I might never know in this lifetime what it feels like to be in a full physical relationship with another human being. No matter how much I want it there are some things I might never know and never experience. I feel ugly and unwanted and I cry myself to sleep often even though most people who know me during the day would never know that.
I remember my parents telling me that life is not fair. Only in the last few months I realized more and more what that means. There is no response to it. There is no answer. Simply, life is not fair.
Update a few days later . . . . I have gotten some very nice emails from readers about this post. Each one nicer than the next. Thank you. The email made me realize the question I have. Exactly what should I say? If you are an otherwise Orthodox man who maybe is also a virgin or maybe has had one or two partners but in any case is very private about these things . . . or if you used to be Orthodox and now are not . . . or if you were never Orthodox but you are meeting an Orthodox woman you met through a dating website . . . what should someone like me (a woman you know from the community or maybe a pretty close friend . . . or someone you have met once or twice because you were set up or met online) say to bring up the subject of sex and see whether you might be open to helping each other be less lonely and sexually frustrated? How can I bring it up and still have my dignity if the man is not interested either because he is not attracted to me or because he is too religious to say yes? What if he is someone I have to see in the neighborhood whether he says yes or no, so I would feel awkward if he says no? People are telling me to be calm and natural but I have no idea what words to use in different circumstances. You can leave a comment here or send an email to shomernegiah@gmail.com but I hope you will leave a comment so that other people in the same position as me can see it too.

19 Comments:
there are many good, trustworthy, off-the-derech type people on secular dating sites (don't bother with jdate) who at least partially share your experience. more people understand you than you think, and although I don't blame you for not wanting to complicate things with your friends, there is no reason for you not to forge a meaningful relationship with someone not currently in your daily sphere. put yourself out there! I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
"The men who are my friends are too religious for me to ask this of them and besides if they were attracted to me I assume they would have wanted to date me."
My advice is never assume.
As you said yourself, after a certain age, if we're still single then being shomer negia is by default and not by design. I'm not making excuses for it, but that's the way it is. Of course, based on what society expects, we don't dare say that out loud, so we're all stuck being frustrated.
If there's a guy who you think might be a candidate (even if he seems too religious) try to find a way to bring up the subject. (If only there were a blog that you could mention in conversation and see how he reacts....) Find an excuse to sit next to him and "accidentally" bang into him. Most guys will be too conditioned to respond (or too brainwashed and/or chicken to do anything), but it's worth a try.
Also, just because a guy hasn't approached you and asked you out doesn't mean that he's not interested in dating you, but that's a whole other story.
>>I am ready for a "friends with benefits" situation but do not know how to arrange or ask for such a thing. The men who are my friends are too religious for me to ask this of them and besides if they were attracted to me I assume they would have wanted to date me. I do not want to hear from another man I respect and like that he is not attracted to me.
The men who are not my friends but might be open to a sexual relationship that is non-religious men ( I have met some from internet dating) freak out when they find out I have never had sex. They do not want the responsibility of being my "first" or they assume I must have strange sexual issues they do not want to be involved with, which might be true but I do not have a way to find out. <<
You need to relax. Your not a child any more and sex is a natural thing for adults. Frankly, you are likely to find a man with frum leaning who you will like, but you need to breath deeply and be a little more confident.
I can't tell exactly what types of situations have come your way, but you may have good results if you don't wait for men to make the first move. Older single men are often shy, and they may not know how to make the first move, especially if they grew up in yeshivish backgrounds. And sometimes it might take several attempts: maybe you hug someone, and he hugs back only weakly, but that could mean that he's not interested or it could mean that he's nervous. In the era of "he's just not that into you" and having been rejected myself many times, I thought that the second possibility (being nervous) was not likely, especially if it happened many times in a row, but actually it does happen that a man is perfectly masculine and assertive in a relationship, but he might be really shy on the way into the relationship. And it is scary to put yourself out on a limb, but I always remember the proverbial story of the ugly guy who is always getting laid in college: he gets turned down 95% of the time, but that 5% of women who accept him is enough. And it gets easier with practice. And it's even easier if you feel self-confident. I hope that you find something to increase your confidence in yourself, rock climbing, heavy weight lifting, something that makes you feel strong and accomplished, no matter what your weight is. Lots of beautiful, strong, confident women who aren't small, and they blog and post on the internet and have a good community.
Thanks for the update. I am close to your age, have been reading your blog since it began, and at times I felt like there was no hope for me, and I was thinking of "settling", but I finally met a man just a couple years older who I believe is truly my bashert. I hope that you do too. I learned so much from reading books written by older former-singles, like Rachel Greenwald and even an evangelical psychologist Henry Cloud. If you're thinking "I'm happy for this commenter, but that's unlikely to work for me," (something that I have thought about others' similar statements many many many times), I will also add that I learned not to think defeatist thoughts like that from reading cognitive therapy books like _Feeling Good_.
BS"D
Shalom "Nice Jewish girl",
reading the first page of your blog makes me say "ow".....and it hurts me seeing a Jewish woman fight this inner struggle.
But, on the other hand...being virgin is NOT a shame.....I was virgin (as man) till age 27, which is very late for men in Europe.
And being virgin gives you, from the Jewish spiritual perspective, more power in prayer and good deeds.
Perhaps this is not the appropiate place at all , but I am single, Jewish (orthodox), from Europe, 41 years, divorced (from a mentally sick woman), high educated, speak some languages, now "looking" but not actively searching.
Sexuality is an important aspect of Jewish marriage, so on that point I am willing to assist, but only within the boundaries of marriage or a long-term relationship, not for a one-night stand.
The thing is that I would require my future "wife" to make Aliyah and start living in Israel.
There is much more to say about me, but not here.
One thing, please do not give up hope and DO NOT waste virginity as a burden for a single sexual event (I did it in the past before marriage, and I still have regrets). The more this counts for women.
If interested feel free to contact me
Despite what the movies and fraternity life leads us to believe, I think most decent men won't just have sex w/ any random woman. If they would, they've probably been w/ so many by now, you would contract a STD by just sharing breathing space.
With that being said, I think it would be just plain awkward to be w/ any guy & ask about having sex flat-out. There needs to be some flirtation, some playfulness involved, and it sometimes takes time until you get to the stage of sex.
I'm saying this because I also was shomer negiya for a long time, and when the opportunity arose for sex, I went for it, and completely went crazy with guilt afterwards. I felt like I forced myself into smthg I wasn't ready for, and I had tremendous guilt about being a 'frum' person & yet doing such a thing. I had to work for years on that guilt issue until I felt confident in either being w/ more men (which I did in the past) or deciding that I don't want to continue doing that until I'm either engaged or married.
My focus for many years was about how I had never kissed a guy, never been w/ a guy, and I obsessed about it, but stemmed from very low confidence... a poor self-image that turned off many guys.
I know you said this was a rant, but I sense a lot of self-pity in the post... Perhaps if you work on being more confident, you will begin to radiate a more sexy 'aura', and if you start socializing in more liberal, open communities, you will attract a guy and it will develop into a sexual relationship.
I just think that after so much time of focus on being shomer, marriage, etc, jumping right into sex w/ someone won't have a healthy outcome. You won't enjoy it and it won't be satisfying for you. Unless you can just relate to it as another thing you had to do for the day (and only the gross frat guy can do that).
I think you should contact bar pinchas :-) he sounds nice...
Why would you tell someone you're a virgin?
Just to give you some hope: A 41 year old frum female professional colleague just got married for the first time to a really nice man just over a week ago. Another 41 year old female never married professional colleague just got engaged. And my wife got married for the first time at age 44 -- to me. :) Don't give up hope!
Hi,
I read through some parts of your blog and saw some people writing comments that weren't so nice.
I just wanted to tell you that I don't judge you. I cannot understand your situation because I'm still quite young and hopefully I will never be in that situation, but even though that is the case it doesn't mean that I don't feel your pain.
Sometimes people don't need criticisms, judgments or suggestions. They just need people who care and who feel their pain for them. I care about you because you're my sister like every other jewish girl, and I feel sad with you.
You're not alone.
I literally just came across your blog and I love it. My middle name is virgin! It is my personal choice to remain a virgin until I am married. I am 25 years old. I would for you or anybody else to check out my blog.
http://thehappyvirgin.blogspot.com
Just started it!
Dear nice jewish girl,
Do you still live in America or are you in Israel? If you're in America and by the NYC area you should join Footsteps. It is to help people who come from very religious families and no longer feel they should be part of that world. This program helps them adjust to real life. The reason I point this out to you is it can open up a world of opportunities for you in terms of available men who come from a similar background and may be looking for the same thing you are. Look into it: footsteps.
i related to every last word you said here. including not knowing how to find the "friend with benefits". but i disagree with the commenter who claimed you are full of self pity- if you are its for good reason and theres nothing that will take it away until you find love. ive given up hope but maybe just maybe something good can still happen to us.
I just love the "don't give up hope" and "You're too down on yourself; be positive" comments. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.) Do you just not have any idea how much it hurts to just be unwanted and unloved? Let me tell you it sucks. How in the world are you supposed to "be more confident" when you have NOTHING to find confidence in? And to have people say, "Oh, just be patient" is just annoying.
I hope all the best for this blogger and as I have travelled down a similar path I so much appreciate her sharing thorugh her blog. The above is not to discourage her (the vast majority of people don't die virgins/having never married). All the comments just hit a truly sore spot.
Shomer Negiah, feel free to remove my comment. I just needed to say it.
I don't know what other way to put it, but it just totally sucks.
It totally sucks that you are in this situation thats not within your control.
Worse thing yet is that its just a biological fluke. More men are born than women, but by the age of 18, there is a 1:1 ratio between us. Any age increase will see more men die than women from accidents, and disease, leaving some women without a man.
Then there's the whole theory that more men are going OTD.
I was web browsing, found your blog, and read it. I'm very sorry about your situation and will daven for you bli neder.
However, I want you to know that you are beautiful and incredible. With a nisayon this big, it's impossible not to see how much you've overcome already, and please, don't give up.
You are more than just a body though, you are a beautiful neshama with incredible nisyonot, and you should know that what's hardest for you is your tafkid. Please, keep fighting, but by the Torah's standards.
Hi there,
I just came across your blog and have only read a little bit, so the answer to my question may be written where i have not yet seen. But have you considered working with a therapist? This question comes out of support, not judgment. I am a Jewish therapist (raised modern orthodox, currently conservative, so i understand our histories are very different,) and I work with many single Orthodox women about their feelings around their self-image, their sexuality, and finding love. Talking out lout with a non-judging, supportive individual has been helpful to the women I see in my practice.
Just a thought. I wish you the very best.
Don't panic. You have a lot of life ahead of you. I got married at 39 and was a virgin prior to that. (Actually, before I met my wife, I was too timid even to hold a woman's hand. It seemed like a huge hurdle that I just could never cross...) So there's always hope, and at any moment you could meet the right person. Also, it's not worth spending too much time going over and over the things you think you are currently missing out on. You might not believe me, but chances are good that you are significantly over-building these things in your mind. Kissing and sex and all that stuff are good, but there are many other things in the world that are better, like kindness and charity and empathy. And those opportunities are ever-present, and they lead to other good things, and to other good people.
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