Sunday, December 11, 2005

I am OK.

I just had to spend an hour deleting comments. Some I deleted for various reasons but in particular I deleted the argument at the end of the last post, where a commenter was pretending to be the "blog admin" and was also pretending to be other commenters. That is not nice! I believe there is something called "netiquette" and pretending to be other commenters is not part of it! Please everyone, the only "blog administrator" on this blog are me and one very loyal friend who helped me set up the blog. But she does not make any changes to the blog unless I ask for her help in changing something. So really the only person running things is me.

Since the comments are sometimes ridiculous and disprespectful I will try for a little while to moderate them. So from now on your comment will first come to me and I will decide whether it will go on the blog. It is unfortunate that I have to do this since I anticipate that it will be time-consuming.

Of course I will allow supportive comments to go up. But I will also usually allow comments that are critical of my decisions as long as they are written in a way that is respectful to me and to the other commenters. I cannot give a definite rule, just that if I feel challenged it will go up but if I feel insulted or do not like it for some other reason it will not go up.

I will have to write at length some other time about my current feelings about negiah but here is a little more information for all of you to think about and argue over in the comments (that now I will moderate.)

First of all, we never had sex. East Side Bubby is certainly a sanctimonious person for jumping to that conclusion and I am very glad that she is not my Bubby. Remember the relationship was short, a little bit troubled, and conducted over a distance of hundreds of miles. We did not even get to see each other in person too many times. In fact that first time we kissed was probably the steamiest thing we ever did. It was all very innocent. A little kissing, a little cuddling, a little hand-holding. That was all I needed and wanted at the time.

Second he definitely never pressured me to do more than I was ready for. The idea that we broke up because I would not agree to his physical demands could not be more untrue. He was very protective of me and also of himself when it came to that. We both knew there were problems in the relationship and wanted to take it slow.

Another thing I must say is that I am definitely not regretful that I "wasted" or "gave away" my first kiss to someone who later it didn't work out with. The negiah aspect of our relationship was wonderful and just what I needed at that time. He was a gentleman in every way, I will always treasure those memories. Especially since the alternative was to be Shomer Negiah with him . . . and you all know how I was feeling about that before we went out. I just could not do it. I did not have it in me. If we had been SN, I would be writing a post saying how I wasted an opportunity to find out how it feels and to finally be held. I am very glad I took my chance and that I chose to take the chance with a nice man who was patient and very sweet to me.

Fourth I will not detail the reasons that we broke up but I hope everyone realizes that relationships are complicated and negiah was just a tiny piece of a much bigger and more complicated puzzle. People have histories and expectations, and there are many stresses that people have to be able to work through, especially if you are older and have already done many things with your life. Does it really matter why we broke up or whether it was his decision or my decision? The important thing is that we could not overcome the problems that we had. But I will be grateful always that he came into my life when he did.

I am feeling OK. Yes I do resent and feel angry over some of the things he did. I did feel hopeful about him for a while and it hurts when your hope is broken. It hurts a lot. But I see very clearly that I am not meant to be with him and it is OK. I see very clearly that Hashem sent him to me as a gift for the time that I had him in my life, if for no reason than just to make sure I got some kisses and cuddles before I lost my mind.

I have been thinking about many questions such as whether I would want to be SN in my next relationship. Every day is a new one, just because I made certain decisions now does not mean they would still be the right ones later. But of course with things the way they are it might be 10 years or more until my next relationship. That is very scary. I am also nervous about what will happen when the memories of this relationship fade a little, if I might go back to feeling desperately frustrated, physically.

But remember that there are many things in my life besides the fact that I have changed from "never been kissed" to "kissed just a little." I am busy making some other big decisions about my employment and possibly moving! My family and friends have been very good to me. So really I am OK. You do not have to feel sorry for me. I am OK.

62 Comments:

Blogger Eshet Chayil said...

I've been reading your blog for a long time. Commented a few times anon. I think that it took tremendous strenth. To go even as long as you did being shomer. It's hard. I don't think anyone is blaming you for the breakup, and if they are, so what? You know what happened, not anyone else.

12/11/2005 10:52:00 AM  
Anonymous not impressed said...

NJg -- i am glad you are doing well and that the experience, though painful, has been healthy for you.

One note, I am responsible for the comments getting out of hand. When I saw that first blog admin note (probably false) I jumped the gun and wrote something nasty which I am happy you deleted. Then I added fuel by perpetuating the string. I am glad you did not erase my original points abut people believing in themselves and in their right to be happy. I meant those comments very intensely and wrote them from very personal experience. i hope they were meaningful to people who read here because believing this concept of teshuva and that god wants all of us to be happy has has a very positive impact on my life.

12/11/2005 10:58:00 AM  
Blogger Josh said...

NJG, I'm glad to hear you're doing well. I'm just curious - it was clear from your posts that your decision to not be SN was made before you even got to know this last guy. Was the Negiah in your last relationship something that you did because you felt it was natural for the relationship, or was it an opportunity for you to experience Negiah, regardless of the intensity of the relationship?

I'm definitely looking forward to hearing your current views of SN, both emotionally and halachicly. But most importantly, I always look forward to hearing positive news, hopefully soon, even if in small doses. Thanks for keeping with the blog!

12/11/2005 11:32:00 AM  
Anonymous East Side Bubby said...

I'm truly happy for you!

If I may say in my defense, I never thought the relationship had progressed further than touching/kissing.

I just stated than SN is always best. I think you'd like me, If you actually met me in person. I'm just a very traditional in my views.

Much hatzlacha in the future, may you find your soul mate really soon!!

12/11/2005 12:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Random Girl said...

I don't have anything incredible to say. I just want to thank you for sharing all of this with us all, and to tell you that your words have had an incredible impact on me during these past months. One of the hardest things for me to deal with after a breakup is the feeling of crushed possibilities, of how my hopes/expectations. And it's very hard when I don't see the good in the breakup. How do you do it?
Anyways, thanks again.

12/11/2005 12:37:00 PM  
Blogger Esther Kustanowitz said...

NJG, as always, you have my support. Here's to open, respectful conversations.

12/11/2005 12:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I dont think this SN is totally healthy or encouraging people to get married. At some point it just makes the singles isolated and akward with eachother. It's a real catch 22 once you're no longer a kid.

12/11/2005 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger Moshe Kappoya said...

Glad to hear you are well.
Mazel U'Bracha! I hope you find happiness very soon.

12/11/2005 06:20:00 PM  
Blogger Moshe Kappoya said...

Glad to hear that you are well.
Mazel U'Bracha! I hope you find happiness very soon.

12/11/2005 06:21:00 PM  
Blogger strikingamatch said...

Thank you for your positive post.

Be strong and God be with you!

12/11/2005 06:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Chanty said...

Didn't check this blog for a while and I'm sorry to read about the break-up ... but as you mentioned, it was great that you were able to have this experience with another person.

I appreciate your honesty & courage in sharing your life with us so openly, and I will never understand people who take that information and use it to attack you. SN is an interesting topic and I hope that in the future we can all debate it respectfully & with consideration for all the peoples involved.

As always, best of luck to you and hopefully your wait for mr. right will be a short one.

12/11/2005 10:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Chanty said...

And one more thing ... reading through the comments I'm happy to see how many supportive people there are out there, and who are quick to get rid of the flamers. I hope that this community can give you all the best wishes it possibly can. ^_^

12/11/2005 10:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Curious said...

As a reader of this blog since its inception, i must say that, just like someone who follows a soap opera for many years, you get connected and invested in the situations and life of the "characters". I wish you will reconsider your descision NOT to reveal why you broke up. You can reveal it without giving away his identity and without revealing anything personal about yourself. It would help each of us understand what has been going on with you much better. Just being general helps us understand. Id ask any of my friends or even shul acquantances "what happened?" if they said they broke up.

12/12/2005 12:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Harry said...

I think that your blog has enriched the lives of many. You have dealt with very difficult questions in an honest and sensitive way.

You deserve a lot of credit.

12/12/2005 03:19:00 AM  
Anonymous mike said...

I just wanted to add my note of thanks to you for your very open and insightful blog. It is truly liberating to have someone like yourself share so much of your personal life and challenges with us.

12/12/2005 06:58:00 PM  
Blogger Ezer K'negdo said...

You are a strong woman. Your honesty has always impressed and inspired me. May you go from strength to strength. --EK

12/12/2005 07:38:00 PM  
Blogger Balabusta in Blue Jeans said...

Good post--be well.

12/12/2005 09:31:00 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

I noticed that you deleted my comment to your last post.. Hope I didnt offend you in any way..

12/12/2005 11:33:00 PM  
Blogger pesematology said...

you are a wonderful, insightful, and reflective person.

12/13/2005 05:39:00 AM  
Anonymous evian said...

The only prob with this comment moderation is that now there can't be any discussions going on... but what can you do?? I totally understand where you're coming from!

12/14/2005 11:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

I will respond to a few comments before I go to sleep.

Curious . . . I have been thinking and thinking about how to describe why we broke up but I cannot think of a way to do it that makes me feel comfortable about my anonymity. You see, some of my friends do not even know that this blog is me. They suspect maybe, but they do not know for sure. I am sorry. I can tell you with confidence that if I had married this man both of us would have been very unhappy in the long run.

Semgirl . . . I do not remember now what you wrote but I do know that in general you write very nice comments. So maybe I deleted it by mistake or maybe I deleted it because your comment did not make sense anymore after I had deleted so many of the ones before it. Do not worry about it too much.

Evian . . . there can still be some discussion but people will have to think more carefully about how they write their comments which can only be a good thing. Kneejerk reactions have led to ugly things.

To the person who wrote to me saying that I must be a male . . . I tried to publish your comment because I thought it is very funny but the system rejected it anyway. Too bad. I should tell you that there are other websites with discussions about whether I am "real." Of course my assurances to you that I really am a woman do not mean much if you never believed me until now! Well, it is up to you to decide.

To the person who wrote calling my decisions pitiful and saying that Halacha means nothing to me . . . If you rewrite your comment in a way that is challenging but not insulting, then I will post it. Meanwhile I point out to you: if halacha meant nothing to me, then I would not be asking whether I would be SN next time, I would be assuming that I will never be SN again. If halacha meant nothing to me I would not have been SN for 35 years now would I? I would have started dating non-halachic men years ago, no? If you had taken a moment to think about it you would have realized that. It is unfortunate that I have to moderate these comments (but liberating too I must admit!)

12/15/2005 01:22:00 AM  
Blogger Datingmaster, Jerusalem said...

I am happy you enjoyed the relationship while it lasted and also became abetter person

12/15/2005 07:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

Datingmaster . . . I do not understand why you think I am a better person but thank you for the compliment. I am the same person I was before just a little calmer in some ways. And also I am of course disappointed that things did not and could not work out. I wish things could have been different.

12/15/2005 07:56:00 AM  
Blogger Moshe Kappoya said...

NJG,
Thought you might find this interesting...

A man was sleeping when suddenly his room filled with light, and G-d
appeared. The L--d explained that the man was to push against the rock in
his front yard with all his might. So this the man did, day after day. For
many years he toiled from sun up to sun down, his shoulders set squarely
against the cold, massive surface of the unmoving rock, pushing with all of
his might. Each night the man returned to his cabin sore and worn out,
feeling that his whole day had been spent in vain.

Finally, the Adversary (Satan) decided to enter the picture by placing
thoughts into the weary man's mind: "You have been pushing against that rock
for a long time, and it hasn't moved." Thus, he gave the man the impression
that the task was impossible and that he was a failure. These thoughts
discouraged and disheartened the man. Satan said, "Why kill yourself over
this? Just put in your time, giving just the minimum effort; and that will
be good enough."

The weary man decided to take his troubled thoughts to the L-rd. "L-rd,"
he said, "I have labored long and hard in Your service, putting all my
strength to do that which You have asked. Yet, after all this time, I have
not even budged that rock by half a millimeter. What is wrong? Why am I
failing?”

The L-rd responded compassionately, "My friend, when I asked you to
serve Me and you accepted, I told you that your task was to push against the
rock with all of your strength, which you have done. Never once did I
mention to you that I expected you to move it. Your task was to push. And
now you come to Me with your strength spent, thinking that you have failed.
But is that really so? Look at yourself. Your arms are strong and muscled,
your back sinewy and brown; your hands are callused from constant pressure,
your legs have become massive and hard. Through opposition you have grown
much, and your abilities now surpass that which you used to have. True, you
haven't moved the rock. But your calling was to be obedient and to push and
to exercise your faith and trust in My wisdom. That you have done. Now I, my
friend, will move the rock."

12/15/2005 02:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you notice that in this past parsha Jacob didn't seem to be SN.
I am not sure what to make of this. Perhaps Rachel was only but I doubt that as he married her only 7 years later and further that would mean she died at quite an early age...Perhaps kissing was a general form of greeting at the time as may be evidenced by Laban's subsequent kiss of Jacob when he goes out to greet him, although this too I doubt as I do not recall otehr instances of kissing mentioned by greetings that aren't of intense emotion (c.f Jacob meeting Esav after being estranged for some time)...Most likely I feel that the forefathers while they observed some comandments were not required to observe the entire torah. As such Jacob was not required. This being the case, the conclusion that I draw is that even if the law is that SN is right, certainly in the absence of the law this is not the most natraul state of affairs. That is while by law we may be required to be SN it is not neccessarily true that an SN relationship is natraully satisfying. The struggle is ineluctable and it must be realized that people will at times slip as nature can generally not be perpetually transcended. That said, perhaps the merit of the law in more in the epic intent rather than the actual outcome.
What do other think?

12/15/2005 10:43:00 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

"To the person who wrote calling my decisions pitiful and saying that Halacha means nothing to me "

Obviously Halacha means nothing to him, or he wouldnt embarrass you and hurt your feelings like that.

That is clearly an Issur Doreisa. Look in Chofetz Chaim.

12/17/2005 08:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a frum guy who got married young, your blog has really opened my eyes about how difficult it is to be frum, 30+ and single. It has made me see my wife's single friends in a new light. Thanks.

12/18/2005 01:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I only just discovered your blog. Though I am much younger, I identify with many of the issues you are facing (being also a 'nice jewish girl'). It's not something that's talked about often, even amongst my friends, something so personal and so difficult to deal with and is often dismissed as nothing important due to other serious situations that come up in life. There is so much I'd like to say but for the moment, thank you will have to suffice as I don't have the time to write everything now. Thank you for putting yourself out there and sharing your life. Thank you for reminding me again to always have hope. Thank you for being a voice for all us SN people battling with similar issues. Thank you for reminding me to look for the best in everything, even the hardships. Thank you and best of luck for everything in the future. (another good single jewish girl, mid-twenties)

12/18/2005 07:05:00 AM  
Blogger FrumGirl said...

You have a heartfelt blog... Stay positive....

12/18/2005 10:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Ivory said...

The way you keep on emphasizing that you are okay...you're ok... sounds like you are trying to convince yourself... can it be?

12/19/2005 04:54:00 AM  
Anonymous fltbshyid said...

I don't understand my comments you didn't let through but when sem girl comments on an excerpt that you provided without reading the whole comment that you let through. Seems to me pretty one-sided, that you are not open to challenges.

12/19/2005 11:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

fltbshyid . . . as you can see I am perfectly open to challenges, since I just posted your comment. But your original comment was worded in a very very nasty way. As I said in my post I am open to being challenged but not insulted. If you write comments in a way that is respectful of the fact that I am a person with feelings then I will post them even if you disagree with me.

12/19/2005 02:52:00 PM  
Anonymous dee said...

Sounds like you're handling it just fine. I think "long-term we just weren't compatible" is a "good" reason to break-up, if there's ever a good reason, and enough information for us here, even if living vicariously through you we feel like we need more information.

Actually, I have close real-life friends who haven't given me more information than that, and we were talking about a broken engagement, not just a broken dating relationship. Sometimes, it's not anyone's business (or it's Loshen HaRa) what the actual details are.

Hatzlacha on your possible moving and those "other big decisions" -- sometimes a change in place leads to a change in Mazel. I know my last move was pretty much the hardest thing I've ever done (unmedicated labor pales in comparison) but every bit of tzoris turned out to be worth it. May you have an easier change but just as much benefit!

12/19/2005 03:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think that you and your visitors could benefit greatly from hearing why this relationship had to end. There can be times in a dating relationship where red flags are heeded, and when they are not. Since you said in an earlier comment "I can tell you with confidence that if I had married this man both of us would have been very unhappy in the long run," then those red flags obviously became deal-breakers that you knew would not change.

Providing even just a couple of insights might provide a world of benefit to other singles, SN and not-SN, out there navigating those rough dating waters.

And may you find your zivug soon, I"YH.

Dr. Janice

12/19/2005 07:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

Dr. Janice . . . Thank you for your kind wishes. I have thought about your comment. I am sure it would be helpful for some other people to hear why we broke up. We can all learn from each other. But just as I do not think it is my job to be SN just to live up to the expectations of readers who want me to be a poster child for SN, so too I do not think I have to tell my readers why we broke up if telling them will compromise my anonymity. There are people who would know immediately who I am if I wrote why we broke up, who I do not want to know that I am Nice Jewish Girl. I am doing what I can to show others what it is like to be SN, at least for me, or to not be SN anymore after being SN for a long time. I am doing the best I can to share my experiences and perspectives, but I must draw the line at a certain point.

12/20/2005 07:03:00 AM  
Anonymous flatbshyid said...

Okay, please explain your comment that you don't know if in your next relationship you will want to be SN. Do you agree that halacha says you have to be SN, yes or no? Do you look at your kiss as a slip or as a new lifestlye? Why do you think kissing is okay because it is just to hard for a person not to have felt this by whatever age and not for example having sex? Why should a person be deprived of that do you think G-D doesn't understand how hard it is on someone in todays society not to have sex? Where do we draw the line? What about if someone works in a Burger King and has to smell the food every day do you thing G-D will understand if he eats once in a while? These are starter questions I await your reply.

12/22/2005 11:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As an Orthodox Jew, I can say that I have followed your blog for some time. I hope that you will find someone to marry and have a family with. And I am sorry that you needed to break the halacha. I will try not to judge what you chose to do. I have my own peckalach that I am not proud of as well. That said, I should point out that Hashem sends us opportunities, and challenges. What you did, NJN, clear and simply was an aveira. There is no way around that. And to suggest that the pleasure that you received from this was a "gift from Hashem", it would seem to me is an insult to Hashem. He is not proud of you for this. He did not want you to do this. He understands, but that is not the same thing. It is inappropriate for you to continue ascribing Divine support for what you did.

12/23/2005 07:52:00 AM  
Blogger Rabbi Ariel Sokolovsky said...

B"H
Happy Hanukah!
Anonymous

To say that a pleasure from an aveirah is not a gift from Hashem places limits on G-d...it creates G-d in your own image.
Ruzhiner Rebbe went even further saying that:
If a worst sinner would know that even at the momement of enjoying sin he is realy serving G-d he would go made from anger...:-)

12/26/2005 11:12:00 PM  
Blogger Needsabetterjob said...

It absolutely was a gift from Hashem. I am going to have to refrain from coming to this blog any more, the sickening nastiness I see here by people who claim to be holy, is too much for me.

Hope to hear good news for you soon, it can and will happen.

Maybe you should get in a quick trip to Eretz Yisroel, it sounds like you need to be amongst real Jews...

Pour your heart out at the Kosel, Kever Rochel, and the others.

12/27/2005 08:56:00 PM  
Blogger Moshe Kappoya said...

Rabbi Ariel Sokolovsky,

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that it is OK to sin, that sining is G-d's will?
Please elaborate. Thanks.

12/28/2005 03:14:00 PM  
Blogger Nice Jewish Guy said...

It amazes me that people here can presume what G-d does and does not understand, does and does not agree with, and what "He" is insulted by. What isinsulting is that some people are so self-righteously confident that they claim to understand the mind of G-d, and pass judgment on what is an 'Aveirah' or not (I'm talking here to the most recent 'anonymous'-- exactly what ws she "oveir"? Show me anywhere in the TORAH where kissing is prohibited. She was, at worst, in violation of a Takanah. Admirable, maybe not, but a) it's not the same thing and b) not for you to judge.)

We're all so concerned with wether someone might be kissing someone, while we cheat on our taxes, treat our neighbors with disrespect, hurt the ones we love and act without basic Detech Eretz. What NJG does is between her and her G-d.

12/28/2005 05:13:00 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

NJGuy

Amein.. I agree with you 100000%..

12/29/2005 03:53:00 PM  
Blogger Holly in Cincinnati said...

This is my first visit to your blog - I saw it nominated for the 2005 Jewish and Israeli Blog Awards at http://info.jpost.com/C005/BlogCentral/JIB.2005/.

You should probably know that, ever since the 1982 publication of the anthology "Nice Jewish Girls" (see below), NJG has been a code-word for Jewish lesbians like me. I'm 47, I actually went to public school with one of the contributors and knew another one while in college.

Evelyn Torton Beck, Nice Jewish Girls: A Lesbian Anthology (1982. Revised edition, Boston: Beacon Press, 1989)

12/30/2005 11:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

Holly . . . .
That is very funny, I did not know that! Well I definitely am not a lesbian but of course people of all sexual orientations are welcome to read my blog. Thank you for stopping by.

I am in the middle of writing some new posts for this blog. Some are about how I am OK and some are about how bitter I am feeling. It depends on the day. It is hard to write these posts! Being honest with myself is not easy. I will post more when I know that I have written the truth.

1/01/2006 01:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"we sit outside and argue all night long about a G-d we've never seen but never fails to side me"

- "Standing outside a broken telephone booth with money in my pocket," Primitive Radio Gods

1/01/2006 03:53:00 PM  
Blogger Ayelet said...

E-hugs and kisses and best wishes.

1/02/2006 11:14:00 PM  
Anonymous jenny said...

NJG,

I have been reading your blog almost since the beginning, but it had been a while since I stopped in. What a whirlwind of emotions to learn in rapid succession that you had begun dating someone, had been kissed, and had broken up. I was thrilled to hear of the dating, ecstatic to hear of the kiss, and saddened to hear of the breakup.

I continue to be amazed at how you are able to touch so many people, in so many unique ways. I, for instance, have no religious affiliation, so many of your struggles are things I cannot have experienced, but I have suffered from debilitating depression for virtually all of my life. I am very moved by your story. I admire your conviction and your humanity.

I think you are doing a beautiful thing, in sharing these elements of your life. Like everyone here, you are in my thoughts, and I wish all the best for you.

1/02/2006 11:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi NJG.

I am sorry that you broke up. I wish you the best of luck in meeting your bashert.

I remember that you mentioned that you thought that some issues were standing in your way of meeting men. Do whatever you think is right for yourself, but I do want to share a lesson that I learned after some dating trouble of my own: I always thought that I was innately big-boned and would never lose weight, but after seeing others around me lose weight, I made a concerted effort and didn't allow myself any excuses, and somehow managed to lose 6 lbs. Which isn't much, but really changed how I see myself and how others see me, and gave me a lot of hope for the future (which hopefully includes losing another 6 lbs).

Your issues may be different, and I am sure that you have inspiration all around you, but your comments earlier in your blog reminded me of something that I might have said, and I just wanted to talk back to myself, if that makes sense.

I hope that doesn't sound condescending at all. I just feel like I crossed an abyss and it wasn't that difficult, and I never would have even tried (and I mean really tried, not just made a half-hearted effort) were it not for my whim to do something good for myself after a bad dating experience.

1/03/2006 07:10:00 PM  
Blogger Tovya @ Zion Report said...

i get death threats on my blog, so your situation could be worse (feel better now?)

1/12/2006 06:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am sorry that you broke up...or perhaps that's not right, if the two of you would have made each other unhappy.

I hope the decisions (employment, moving) you are making now work out well and hkb"h yimale kol mishaalos libech l'tova.

1/16/2006 04:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Ahuvah said...

I just found this blog. I have never been SG, but am taking the first steps towards dating a man who is. It wasn't intentional, I just became interested in this particular man. The idea of not touching before marriage doesn't bother me, but reading about the laws after marriage has made me cycle through a lot of suprise/anxiety/fear/anger feelings. Thank you for what you're doing. I hope reading your thoughts will help me understand what I'm feeling.

1/17/2006 12:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm glad you got kissed by someone you cared for, and you cared for you.
b'hatzlacha

1/17/2006 03:17:00 PM  
Blogger Carla said...

NJG,
I stumbled upon your blog and then read every post you've had. I just wanted to say that you are such an intelligent, feeling, real woman - all of which I am sure you know. as I read I found myself continually impressed with your reasonings, feelings and life (at least what you have shared of it). In response to an old post, if you do ever seriously consider adopting a dog (or any pet really), www.petfinder.com is a fantastic site which connects you with shelters everywhere. Dog or no dog, I wish you all the happiness in the world. The part of yourself which you have shared - though only a part - has impacted me for some reason, even as a married woman who was never SN. For that, thank you.

1/23/2006 01:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Non-Jewish (actually non-religious) single 33-yo woman with quite a few physical relationships behind her, just checking in to lend some support. I really admire your convictions and your efforts to do what's right for you in this sometimes difficult world. Good for you :)

1/23/2006 02:11:00 PM  
Blogger jsirpicco said...

NJG - All the people that were so happy for you when you went ahead and kissed are all so sad for you now that it broke up...somehow these are the tzadikim in the world...the one's that don't care exactly about standards or whatever - it's actually a very non-Jewish way of looking at the whole situation, as in: Whatever you do, whatever you decide, we support you, you are great...

And they yell at the "I told you so's"

But the I told you so's weren't all just being mean for the sake of being mean. They were trying to explain something, which I think can hopefully be summarized as follows:

First, no one is perfect. They're not demanding that you be perfect.

Second: Everyone has challenges and sins. That's fairly obvious.

The problem, as Jsirp sees it - and I see only the truth :) - is when people take their challenge, which they were unable to withstand, and elevate it to the status of a mitzvah. (more or less, please let's not quibble on whether those who supported you for breaking SN called it a mitzvah...otherwise, you can't have ANY discussion)

So when you first broke SN and it felt so good - and of course it would. Why else would it be a challenge? Everyone was so happy just that you felt so good. But that wasn't the point:

The point was: Those who criticized you were probably "hoping" to hear something like this:

You know, I'm over 30, and it's hard. It's a challenge, and this guy could be the one. I can't say I'm proud of what happened, and I know it's wrong. But I gave in. I hope that Hashem will not punish me for this - and that if this guy is meant to be my guy, then I hope He will help us to get married so I don't have to succumb to this urge and these pressures. I'm human. I admit that I blew it, and I don't know what will happen next. But I don't think it's cause for celebration. It just is what it is.

Who knows why or why not any given shiddach works out. But one thing is sure - the celebration of not being SN certainly did not help the situation.

And the people who predicted this would happen - in most cases, it's not because they think you're evil. It's because, basically, putting the cart before the horse, when you're trying to date in frum environment, rarely works out.

Especially with Older guys - I said this before, and I'll say it again: If he's willing to Kiss you, he should be willing to marry you (and all the people, then chime in oh no oh no that's not true...- I dont' mean the desire to kiss someone = marriage; I mean that if a guy is dating someone, and he thinks he's willing to kiss her, then HE SHOULD HOLD OFF, AND DECIDE, FIRST, HMMMM...I GUESS I'm attracted to her...that's good. Can I marry this person?

Almost always, when a guy puts physical into the situation BEFORE the commitment, he is stating, at least on some level, even if he's not aware of it, that he is NOT interested in getting married.

I'm sorry, but those are the facts as JSIRP sees them. I don't think I've taken an insulting tone.

So - you're free to do as you wish with this post.

I do hope you find someone soon. I would say, if I may be so bold: Take a look at the following things, in your search:

1) Am I doing what I have to in order to make myself as physically attractive as possible to my potential beshert. If not, take on a project to get there.

2) Am I doing what I have to in order to make myself as phsycologically attractive as possible to my potential beshert. If not, then take care of that as well.

3) Am I doing, etc. to make myself as spiritually attractive to my potential beshert? If not, then take on a spiritual project to move forward.

4) Am I praying for others in my situation? Have I thought about creating a tehillim circle of friends in the same situation, so that we pray for each other to find our besherts.

5) If I could narrow it down to one thing, in the quiet privacy of my own heart, that's holding me back from finding my beshert, what would it be? Answer that question, and work on that issue, and with Hashem's help you will move forward toward finding the right one soon....

Jsirpicco should have a radio show, you know that?

p.s. - see how this is better than just crying with you?

1/25/2006 02:51:00 PM  
Blogger Shomer Negiah said...

Jsirpicco . . . Who said I am crying? I just said I am OK. What you fail to realize is that when I kissed this man I did not do so with any assumption that just because we were kissing we were going to get married. Yes I want to get married but as I have written before I did not know then myself whether I want to marry HIM. I do not think it is reasonable to know that after a few weeks. But I do think it is reasonable for a 35-year-old woman who desperately wants to know what it feels like to kiss and who is not naive about the consequenses to kiss a man who is nice and has been dating her for a few weeks and seems to have some potential. It is not in accordance with halacha but it is an emotionally reasonable thing to do. I did not delude myself about the situation. I am sad now because I am back to being lonely and not knowing the future. But I do not feel taken advantage of in any way. I knew what I was doing and what the possible consequenses were, and I accept those consequenses as an adult.

1/25/2006 11:58:00 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

I'm so sorry to hear that you are sad and lonely again. If there is anything that I can do to cheer you up , please let me know..

1/28/2006 08:17:00 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

I'm so sorry to hear that you are sad and lonely again. If there is anything that I can do to cheer you up , please let me know..

1/28/2006 08:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hang in there, beautiful!

2/01/2006 02:49:00 PM  
Blogger Halfnutcase said...

i wish very badly there was something i could do to ease your pain in this situation, but you'd probably find 21 a bit young to even consider in any case.

HNC

2/07/2006 07:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Notbat said...

I was raised as a Jew but had to go through a technical conversion process since my mother's conversion before my birth was invalid. The hardest part in the process for me was when I was told I should not touch my fiance anymore. This would have been manageable if the bet din had been willing to give me any time frame at all for when we could then complete the process and then we could get married. But they were slow and disorganized and could and would do no such thing. When we finally stopped touching (and we had been completely celibate... to our great pride while living in a world in which this isn't so easy) I became so incredibly depressed. It was one of the most helpless feelings I've ever had and it did NOT bring me closer to Hashem.

I think that touch is really important and that you shouldn't be hard on yourself (nor should others be hard on you) for needing it as much as Hashem made you need it. What to do with that need is, of course, the question. But no one expects you to be perfect.

2/21/2006 07:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So glad to hear from you again. I'm rooting for you!

3/02/2011 05:03:00 PM  

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