Monday, April 11, 2005

Becoming Less Frum

Someone brought up in the comments the issue that the longer people are single the more likely they are to stop being frum or at least to become less frum than they were when they were younger.

As I mentioned in one of my first posts when I was in my early twenties I did not understand this. I thought that if someone believes in Torah and halachah then it should not matter whether they are married or not. As people have commented here sometimes life is hard and I could not understand why being single would make someone become less frum. Even if you are single we are still obligated to keep most of the mitzvos such as Shabbos, kashrus, etc.

Well I am sad to report that I have had my own experience with this phenomenon even though it was subtle. For most of my twenties I was always very comitted to halacha even when I was alone at home because I felt that even if no other people are watching that I still have a responsibility to God and to myself. Even if I was not a wife or mother I was still important as my own unit of humanity.

But a few years ago I stopped washing before I ate bread when I am at home. It was not a conscious decision. Just one day I went to eat a sandwhich and I knew I should wash and I decided not to bother. Who would see? Who would know? I knew that Hashem could see but I said to myself He will understand and just went ahead and ate.

Then a few months later I stopped waiting so long after eating meat before eating milk because who would know? If I went out to dinner and had chili and then came home alone and 2 hours later wanted ice cream then who would know or care? Just Hashem but He would not care so much after all, right?

For me it was not that I was angry at God about being single though often I was. But that was not what made me stop keeping those halachos. It also was not that I stopped believing it was the halacha. It was simply laziness combined with not having people for whom I have to set an example or meet any standards. Certainly when I was out with friends or on dates or with people in my community I continued to wash and be careful about everything just as before.

It might be hard for Orthodox people who are married and have families to understand or admit how much of their religiosity is motivated by their families. You wash even when you do not feel like it because your children are watching you and you want to set a good example for them. You wait the whole six hours after meat because your spouse will know if you break that halacha and he or she will be disappointed. Of course there is the element of believing in it yourself just as there always was for me, but is your belief really so strong that it would repel the laziness or anger or whatever else tempts you to sin if it were not for the family whose standards you want to keep up?

At this point you might say that the halachos I was breaking were relatively “minor” (whatever that means). But what I am saying is that I now understood the phenomenon of my seminary friends whose skirts were getting shorter and necklines lower and who were no longer S.N. I understood how it is that a male friend who used to complain about people who relied on “Shabbos elevators” now relies on non-Jewish doormen to push the elevator buttons for him on Shabbos. I understand now how it is that people who used to go to yeshivas or seminaries might decide to have some fun in their lives and go to a bar and dance together because who is around that will really care? Maybe God. But like I am saying it takes a very strong person to continue being motivated only by that. It is easy to stop caring and hard to continue living up to standards that you set for yourself years ago when you thought you would always have a support network that would help you stay in it. It is very easy for married people to negatively judge the “loose” standards in the singles community but can you really be sure that you would be so frum if not for the children bringing home their parsha sheets and a spouse to whom you have made a commitment to live a certain kind of religious life?

By the way this blog has helped me to become strong again in my commitment to halacha. When I am tempted to break a halacha I think of all the people who said they are praying for me and I think it would be betraying all of you to “waste” the merit you are giving me by turning around and breaking a halacha! So you see I really am paying attention to the comments and appreciate all your caring and supportive words.

I have one more serious post on the topic of “becoming less frum,” and then a sort of blog summary, and then that will be all I have to say, bli neder.

42 Comments:

Blogger The Rabbi's Kid said...

NJG,

You hit the nail on the head. We also lose our youthful enthusiasm for keeping mitsvot, we tend to have many less-frum friends (they are more likely to be single). The sexual urge often impedes our mitsvah performance.
It's difficult to appreciate unless you've gone through it yourself. There's no simple straightforward answer. Like Rebbi Nachman says, there are downs and ups. The downs make us stronger and make the ups more special. I happen to think shiurim/learning helps us stay close to Hashem and are a good way of meeting other singles (a girl who's passionate about Torah - now that's hot!)

Stay strong

TRK

4/11/2005 07:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Eeshaish said...

You will be missed. G-d bless you.
Please think that there are many people who have made a strong connection to you and that you have helped so many people at this time. Please don't go.

4/11/2005 10:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you are picking and choosing what to keep and what to not keep because God is the only one...what is the issue with shomer negiah? Granted you have the guy there, but then again...wait a minute...did you ever had the chance not to be?

4/11/2005 12:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It should not be hard for married people to admit that a lot of their religious motivation comes from living with their families- that's one of the good things about families, they motivate us to do good things. People need motivation.

I found my my soul-mate at the age of 36. I think many of us have to work extremely hard to earn marriage to the partners G-d has ordained for us. Mine was 5000 miles and a failed marriage away; marrying the wrong person is no solution.

G-d forgives our sins and rewards our good actions. He gives some of us higher mountains to climb than others. You've done a lot of climbing already; don't give up.

4/11/2005 01:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I disagree with you. I find myself slipping even with kids and husband. When I do, I do something about it. Like learn Torah, go to classes, talk to your rabbi, tell your friends!!!!! Blaming it on being single is a nice, if not flimsy excuse.

4/11/2005 02:04:00 PM  
Anonymous eeshaish said...

Yes because again you are motivated by having children. For example, this fellow I know, he seriously wants to take work on Shabbos bec. of the poverty that has descended on him. But it was asked of him to consider his children. They are frum heimish children. Would he want to hurt their chances in finding a good Shidduch. His oldest will soon be looking.
So for that reason alone, he decided to continue at least outwardly.
The single has none of this. The single's plight is much more difficult than yours.
I feel that sometimes these Bechinos are too much to bear, and I take a small vacation.

4/11/2005 02:56:00 PM  
Anonymous stuffy said...

I agree with everything you said. I am 25 male and still single. I used to be so frum, went to learn every night. I still go sometimes, and I still daven and things, but my heart isn't into it. I feel maybe if I was better i would find a wife, and I hate complaining to G-d b/c I feel like I can only complain if I do everything perfect. So, i too feel that I have become less frum, at least in mindset.

Sometimes a small part of me feels that I will be single forever, even though I'm only 25. But my dating experience really isn't much. That saddens me b/c I've always wanted to be a husband and a father, and even though other aspects of my life are good...people have a tendency to dwell on what they don't have rather than what they do!!

4/11/2005 03:06:00 PM  
Blogger Shoshana said...

I think whenever you are going through a rough time, it is easy to slip up in your observance, to lose sight of feeling the importance of being makpid on keeping all the halacha. The difference in the case of a single person is that you don't have the same support system in place as someone who is married with a family, to hold you up and help you stay in check. It makes it much easier to become "less frum." I hear you and know what you are feeling - I have been through it, and so have many of the people I know. When I go through these rough times, I try to focus on what I feel is really important, keep the halacha, not worrying so much about stringencies or chumras that I might have taken on, or things that make me look "more frum." But just focusing on the core, and also forgiving myself if I slip up, because after all, we are all human and make mistakes, have weaknesses and have those times when we can't do it all. That doesn't mean we are bad. It means we are normal, and as singles it is often extremely difficult to deal with everything alone.

4/11/2005 04:05:00 PM  
Anonymous justme said...

What you write is so important. I hope that you continue to find some way to write about these issues even if you don't continue this blog.

4/11/2005 06:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dont give up, Nice Girl, for a second. We all love you dearly. A day doesn't go by when I dont cry for you .

4/11/2005 06:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Eeshaish said...

Still one has to do something. If one does nothing to help themselves, I can't see how anything will change.

Perhaps before you leave us, which I hope you won't but if you do, can you articulate and publish what you are looking for. Take us through your first meetings, how are you communicating.

The reason why many want this blog to continue is that you have gathered together many people who are looking for Emet. ('Emess' would be a slack joke).
that is, I think that the typical conversations that many of us have at work w/ co-workers are nonsensical. For me, the Shule conversations are also similar. People either complain that the services are too long, or else are in sleep mode.
At home, there is a child oriented life that is fine, but on some level we are seeking to discuss real human issues, pain, heartache, these are all real we all feel them, married or not.
Many married people maybe all, often dream about that other girl or guy, that they had a chance with. What would have happened?
This may have to do w/ boredom also. But at any rate, since you are stating that you are leaving, I think that you should know that imho, you are contributing to the amcha more than anyone than I can recall.

4/11/2005 08:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's true that marriage does provide some stability but I think you are selling yourself way too short. In some ways, I was much "frummer" when I was single. My support network of friends - married or single - were all into becoming more frum - with shiurim etc. Now my husband doesn't encourage me to get more frum. Why should he? Then he might have to improve to. For example, I decide not to speak Loshon Hara, and my husband just doesn't catch on. It can really turn off any growth. Kiruv organizations target people when they are single or divorced because when there is another person involved change is unlikely.

So why do I try to improve now? No, not because of my kids. I try to be real for them and they would think whatever Mommy does is fantastic until they turn 13 and by the time they are 20 they won't think I'm kosher no matter how frum I am. I do it because I want a personal relationship with G-d. I do it because I want to get into Olam Haba. I do it because I know it's right. I do it because I like MYSELF better when I do. The operative word in these sentences is "I" not he or she or them. I do it for ME.

That core ME was around when I was single and does not disappear just because I'm sharing my life's journey with a partner or am responsible for little kids. "I" have an identity and I nurture myself and keep tabs on my personal growth whatever stage of life I am at. I don't have heart to hearts about spirituality with my husband. I still turn to my rabbis and friends who I turned to when I was single since they know the core ME and still see me as an individual at another stage in the journey.

Perhaps reconnecting with WHY you want to keep Torah and Mitzvos, where G-d is in your life on a daily basis, finding contentment with life day by day, and seeking spirituality from others will help you feel more "frum" whatever that means.

4/11/2005 09:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Another Nice Jewish Girl said...

Hi,

I, too, am familiar with this "becoming less frum" thing. I think some of it has to do with the lack of support inherent in a single's lfestyle, and also with getting older. When you're young and fiery in your teens and twenties, it's a lot easier to be frum. It's a lot easier to be kind of cynical, lazy, tired, and angry when you're in your thirties, especially (but not only), if you're single. I am only 25 (also single, never been kissed), but I am also much less frum than I used to be (turn lights on/off on Shabbat if I want to read in bed on Friday night, wait 3 hours between meat-milk instead of 6, never wash or bentch for bread, etc.). I'm still basically doing Shabbat and my kitchen is still totally kosher and I tell myself that that's enough for now.

Essentially, I have nothing helpful to say at all, which may be why, as you asked in an earlier post, fewer women respond in the comments. Maybe men feel like they have some kind of solution, either through tefilla or through tellng you to stop being SN or whatever.

Best of luck in finding satisfaction in life!

4/11/2005 11:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just found your blog through a friend, and I am very impressed by your strength in Judaism. Even though you are feeling like you are lessening in your religiousity somewhat, my rabbi once told me something very interesting. He looks at very unobservant Jews who still try their hardest, and he thinks that how observant, by the letter, someone is, isn't as important as how hard they are trying. For example, someone who has grown up religious and then goes to a secular college finds new challenges, and may slip in their religiosity, but still be trying very hard, and it's something to respect. It seems to me that you really really want to continue being religious even though it is very hard for you to find inspiration to do so. So while you should, with Hashem's help, continue to follow the mitzvot, don't beat yourself up about the small things... I can imagine that many people in your situation would become frustrated and give up on their Judaism entirely, but you haven't! I wish I could be as steadfast as you... I wish you luck in everything you do! don't give up!!!

4/12/2005 12:23:00 AM  
Anonymous stuffy1979 said...

Hey Another Nice Jewish Girl said...,

I know this is weird but would you like to chat sometime...I'm also 25 and shomer....

4/12/2005 02:15:00 AM  
Anonymous b,h,&e said...

firstly, I'd like to say that I agree with those who've mentioned that the "ups and downs" are a normal part of religious life.
Everyone has their ups and downs, while the extent and level of those are different for different people -- but the pain is the same.
And, whenever any one of us are suffering from one of these, we gotta do our best to get out of it. That doesn't always mean pushing ourselves to try and maintain the status quo. Sometimes it can mean being less stringent *about chumras*, or something similar. But this must be done thoughtfully, not lazily. a person must be honest with him/herself and try to figure out how to get out of the rut. (Speaking with a rabbi, friend, or psychologist {or all 3} is often very helpful.) However, we must always retain that connection and must always strive, even if only in the long run, to regain our level of tzidkus as before and to hopefully achieve an even greater level. (I apologize if this is obvious or "preachy".)

~~~~~~~~
Another NJG,
My heart sank when I read your comment. Perhaps a practical suggestion for the shabbos issue is to buy a "kosher lamp"? (http://www.kosherlamp.com/ Their banner says, "Read in bed friday night" !)
Even if you only did that, it would be an incredibly important improvement. (And it would seem to be a rather easy way to do it too.) (And instead of bentching, maybe just say "Thank you G-d". Three words. That's it. It could make a big difference.)

4/12/2005 02:24:00 AM  
Anonymous eeshaish said...

It's not just the lights dude. It's not just the lights. It's always something. When depression hits, it's like being lost at sea. You need to do something to take away the pain. A light here or a tuna sandwich at a reg. restaraunt, does not mean that much at that point. When you are feeling fine, you can withstand. That is what you need to get.

At the religious core, the depressed person needs to feel inspiration. If I would hear a truly dynamic speaker on a Friday night, then I would probably not turn on the light. Or not buy something maybe I shouldn't.
The problem I find is that I don't get that inspiration almost all of the time. That I think is one of the points of this courageous blog by NGJ. The Orthodox community is not inspiring those who are having depression serious depression in their lives.
There is no easy answer, like just buy that new light thing.
What do you tell that fellow who has torn furniture completely in his house, that has to beg the Yeshivas not to charge him so much per child, and they barely respond.
How do you expect a family, this fellow, w. an income of 50K, to pay for 3 children in Yeshivas? Should he work a weekend job to do so? Should he send them to public school?

4/12/2005 08:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

Eeish . . . You do not understand the first thing about clinical depression. It is NOT a matter of going to an inspiring shiur. The depressed person does not go to the shiur because they cannot get out of bed, or they go and then go home and turn the lights on anyway because THEY DO NOT CARE ANYMORE. Stop playing amateur psychologist. Did you not read in the comment thread several posts ago when I told you to stop? I know you mean well but you REALLY get on my nerves.

4/12/2005 09:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

Eesh . . . also, the woman with the light did not say she is depressed so the Kosher lamp advice may actually work for her.

Eesh why does every comment you write have a reference to someone in your community who needs money? Half the time I do not even understand the connection. I am just wondering what is your obsession with this.

4/12/2005 09:36:00 AM  
Anonymous eeshaiush said...

because I was in the same situation in the past. Because he is just as depressed as you are, and him I know. You are anonymous. I am trying to help both.

4/12/2005 09:52:00 AM  
Anonymous eeshaish said...

I feel for him and I feel for you. I am trying to help this family stay intact, stay in the frum community. No one else gives a damn.
Let me ask you this. If you went public, if it would lead to marriage very soon, would you do it? You can put me down all you want but in the end, they would work.

4/12/2005 09:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you think that being frum is about family then you are wrong and going to be in big trouble when you marry.
You need to do things for yourself otherwise when you lose interest in the reason why youre doing things, you will stop. IF you think that being frum for your spouse is the answer, what happens when you have a fight and are upset with one another...and you do know there are divorces..then what? You give up again?
Why not try for yourself. Think what you want...and do it for YOU!!

4/12/2005 10:09:00 AM  
Anonymous eeshaish said...

Yes but the issue is one of fervor. How does one maintain their fervor? When things start to go real bad.
Someone I know used to attend a Shiur 3 times a week, used to listen to Torah tapes or 'Jewish' music only in the car. Now, due to the financial disaster he has had, he stopped going to Shiurim.

What happens is there is a huge amount of pain and this causes one to lose interest in the
feeling closer to Hashem part of Judaism.

This is one of the problems in being religious imo. You tend to expect that Hashem will reward you w/ what you want. You read Rahsi for example, Ne'eman LiShalem Schar, he has more than once.

So where is the Schar for NJG?

4/12/2005 10:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do we know what God has plannd out for her or for you or for your friend or for me? Who knows what life could have been like had she not been SN or had you ....
think about it. We don't know what could have been if she wasn't SN. Maybe there is a big pot of gold waiting for her in a year. Maybe GoD is planning her reward in Olam Habah and therefore her suffering is due to the future reward to come.
Do you know?
Do you know where the reward is now for keeping shabbos and kosher? Where is my reward for not eating that cheeseburger right now? I want to see it now!!

4/12/2005 03:24:00 PM  
Anonymous ClooJew said...

NJG, you really threw me for a loop there with this last post, lulei demistafina.

As someone who has also struggled with a loss of religious fervor, and who has friends who have done the same, I find your reaction alarming.

Usually when frum people start to slip it's in areas of taavah (desire)--this would explain the necklines, hemlines, dancing, and of course negiah all the way through to actual sex. Being meikil (lenient) in other areas might fit this profile as well: e.g., making havdallah on Saturday night as early as possible, not being as careful on kashrus issues, using a shabbos elevator.

Depression will certainly come into play on things like learning (you don't feel like it) and minyan (you don't feel like getting out of bed).

But some of what you describe cannot be blamed on desire or depression. Not washing for bread? That only sounds like spite to me. Like you're trying to piss off G-d, (Who, btw, does not get pissed off that easily, lulei demistafina).

It can't simply be, as you claim, "simple laziness" because it's just not asking that much. The only reason not to wash your hands is that you are taking a stand. Consciously or not.

I don't think waiting 6 hours between meat and milk is THAT hard unless you are a serious Haagen-Daaz junkie. I don't think benching is THAT hard, although saying it with meaning might be.

PERHAPS for someone with NO self-control these things would fit; but you are Shomer Negiah Girl. You have herculean self-control. Laziness doesn't fit your profile. Not in these matters. If you told me you stopped going to shul because you slept in. Or you stopped being so tznius because it felt sexy--that would fit.

Washing? Please.

4/12/2005 06:26:00 PM  
Blogger The Rabbi's Kid said...

cloojew,

I have to take NJG's side on this. I also have had phases of laziness, feeling down, uninspired, thankfully no serious depression as far as I know, but in those moods I feel less inclined to daven, wash, bench, wear tsitsit, go to shiurim, the regular stuff, maybe out of laziness, maybe the yetser hara, maybe the two are one and the same. You just don't feel like putting the effort in.

TRK

4/12/2005 06:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Eeshaish said...

Anonymous, I am explaining how it is that people who experience depression, drop their devotions to various Mitzvos or minhagim. I am interested in this subject so I have pontificated on it, a bit much as was pointed out by the Kallah. You guys call it laziness, but that doesn't wash w/ me. The same person who was singing only Jewish music, going to such concerts, going to Shiurim does not become lazy. That is, it is like a person who exercises regularly. They are in shape. They don't quit. A person not going anymore to Shabbos mincha even after the clock is sprung forward, it is not laziness. He has slept, rested, ate, he is ready for a nice walk. It means he does not want to go to Shule.
I am looking at the reasons for this shift.
At the core of the depression for frum people, imo, is the feeling that HaShem has abandoned them, kavyochol.
Where are you HaShem, they are asking. Then they cry tears, again, Where are you? Have you forgotten me, I am right here, davening, keeping our sacred S/N.

Perhaps such people are over sensitive over emotional, but that is their nature their soul.

This is the dilemma

4/12/2005 09:10:00 PM  
Anonymous ClooJew said...

TRK,

You have to be inspired to daven properly. You have to be slightly inspired to daven at all.

But washing your hands? Wearing tzitzis? What's the effort in that.

My point is that certain things go beyond laziness; they are, lulei demistafina, small rebellions.

4/12/2005 10:24:00 PM  
Anonymous b,h,&e said...

cloo,
I disagree.
From my own experience, depression is often coupled with (if not composed of) the loss of one's will to do. Everything is difficult and one doesn't have the will to fight it.

Thus, even "easy" things like bentching and washing become difficult. (It can sound silly, but the effort of getting up to wash may just not be there.)

However, I've found that when a viable option is readily available, I often take it. (E.g. I may be too depressed to go to the beis medrash, but if I'm there I'll learn, even if only for 10 minutes.) Hence, my suggestion for the shabbos lamp. I recognize that it is not a permanent solution, but I suggested it as an important relief to a serious symptom. (and still do.)

4/12/2005 11:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

Well I will disagree with ALL of you so there! :-)

I did not say I gave up washing/bentching/waiting 6 hours because I was depressed, that happened BEFORE i got depressed.

Yes they are very easy to do and that is exactly why they are the first to go. One tells oneself that if they are so simple and easy then G-d cannot care so much whether I do them. I am saying that is the rationalization. The hard things one continues doing because obviously they are important and meaningful. It is the easy things that go first. One tells oneself "if there are Jews who wait only 3 hours by their minhag and that is legitimate then it cannot be so bad if I eat the dairy now even though it has not been 6 hours yet" or "Washing. right um whatever." One would never say "whatever" about something difficult.

Cloojew I dare you to leave a comment without using the phrase Lulei demistafina. Just once. Try it. Maybe you will like it!

4/13/2005 08:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Eeshaish said...

Kallah, the point is that the things that you used to do w/ vigor, do not provide the same closeness to Hashem, so you do not feel aligned w/ Hashem, as it were. Thus you look at something like washing, benching, as silliness, as not necessary.
I feel that it is this loss of closeness to Hashem that is the core of dropping some mitzvos/minhagim.

4/13/2005 10:05:00 AM  
Anonymous ClooJew said...

I can't. It's my security blanket.

LuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafinaLuleiDemistafina

I promise I'm in therapy.

4/13/2005 06:10:00 PM  
Anonymous ClooJew said...

Seriously, though, I'm not going to argue with you b,h,&e; if you say that's how it is for you, then that's how it is. Now, I have been depressed, but never so depressed that washing my hands became difficult. That's pretty severe depression, if you ask me.

I think what NJG said is closer to most peoples' experiences, lulei demistafina: "They are very easy to do and that is exactly why they are the first to go. One tells oneself that if they are so simple and easy then G-d cannot care so much whether I do them."

That's a very frightening statement because the Torah tells us never to weigh the value of one mitzvah over another. Granted we may be dealing with Derabbanans and even minhagim, but the point is the same. If we start to cut corners "just because" then we are in fact voicing a rebellion, small though it may be. In that sense it is worse than violating a "bigger" sin, which comes with a yeitzer hara pushing us hard to violate.

Another part of the larger problem is that you are trying to read G-d's Mind. Saying that "G-d cannot care" leads you down a slippery slope. Should G-d care if you never get married? I hate to be so callous, but how does it affect Him?

Keeping Halachah is a statement about you, that YOU care. It's not about G-d. "Halo Osi azvu Vesorasi shamaru--Would they only abandon Me and observe My Torah," G-d tells the prophet.

Please understand, that I am not judging nor criticizing. I am walking through the logical sequence. I would like to hear what you think, particularly Another Nice Jewish Girl.

4/13/2005 06:23:00 PM  
Anonymous eeshaish said...

You have your head in the sand on this one really. You take the classical position and nothing will open your mind to what another's experience is. It is frustrating presenting the difficulties that people have to you, because you have all the (pat) answers. It's OK as I know where you're coming from and you mean well, but I ask you to simply accept another view.

4/13/2005 06:59:00 PM  
Blogger Lyss said...

you are so right on about families motivating you to keep halacha. Many less frum people become more frum (or religous at all) once they have kids. I've seen it happen in my family.

4/15/2005 01:54:00 PM  
Anonymous eeshaish said...

Yes, but what happens alot is that the kids are even more frum, then you have situations where the children tell the Daddy to wear his Yarmulke more, to go to Shule more. It is hysterical.

4/15/2005 02:23:00 PM  
Anonymous eeshaish said...

The question then is, how does the parent become more fervent, than they feel like. Should they focus on these areas that they like, be it, Learning, Chessed, and ignore these areas that they don't like, such as going to shule often or at all? I am referring to those who have many problems to attending shule be they social or spiritual.

4/17/2005 12:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I left a heartfelt comment here about my experience leaving Orthodoxy. You delete all non-frum posts? How scary it must be to read an opinion which conflicts with yours!

4/18/2005 12:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Eeshaish said...

Check again, I don't think she is deleting posts anymore. I think this blog is history for her. I am not sure that she wants to deal w/ anything that anyone has to say or offer to help.

I myself asked a young man if he would like to meet her and he does. I told her this in 3 emails, but she chooses to ignore.

It is a shame, but this is her desire.

4/18/2005 09:59:00 AM  
Anonymous eeshaish said...

Those of you who want to make shidduchim please contact me at my blog,
www.eeshaish.blogspot.com

4/18/2005 06:26:00 PM  
Blogger chaimeli said...

from - Hidden Rabbi

I am so glad you had the strength to openly say what it is that is going on in your life to yourself and to other Jews who may be suffering from a similar decline. We are all here to better ourselves and to grow but adversity and struggle play a huge role in this process. Only through adversity and daily ups and downs can we truly grow and get cloer to God. Perhaps your stoppage in washing will let you better understand why the heck we wash or why we make brachot. I am divorced and understand exactly what you mean, sometimes on Shabbat im all alone and that simply isnt Shabbat its torture and agony knowing that this day can be spent with loved ones. I am also disgusted at some of teh responses i have read here some Jews are so full of hate and negative opinion that they will have a huge surprise waiting for them when Moshiach comes. OUr forefathers struggled, our kings struggled and our prophets struggled. We are on this earth to uncover our souls and become closer to God through our struggles as well as our accoplishments. I personally have been accused by ex-friends and ex-wife as being "fry" or not frum any more as being lax but you know what? I have never felt more cloer to God, i ask my questions, i am rebuilding myself to do thinsg for real and not because my Bubbe did them. SO for all you FRUMMIES out there who like to bash and kick and make fun of those who may be going through rough times, go look in the mirror, take off the silly fake clothes, stop the hipocracy and leave those who are really striving for truth to grow and you all can stay in your overextended mortgaged lives and speak your loshon hara and judge people as you do. Moshiach will be here soon and we will finally have some truth in the world. STAY STRONG SISTER!!!

12/05/2005 10:43:00 AM  
Blogger teddy said...

A long time ago in the state of rhode island i went to yeshivah called the new england academy of torah. i was young naive and went to public school most of my life while living in a religious house . kinda an oxymoron i know. well eventually i started dating the girl of my dreams and we were shomer negiah we didn't do anything but talk. we shared similar families and experiences. however she went to the girls school and i went to the boys school. the first time we ever touched each other was at the bus station in providence after knowing each other for 6 months. i finally got a hug and she sat next to me on the bus ride to my parents house in Poughkeepsie . my mom knew if i was going to have any-kind of a girl friend i had to take her to my parents house and my mom would make sure it didnt get too crazy and she would supervise. as my parents do not judge me as harshly as yeshivish people did. anyway we dated for 4 years in secret and i loved her more than i had loved anyone in my life thus far. i mean i literally risked everything for her and i mean everything. i knew alot of guys who were booted from my yesihiva for just talking . thats right just talking to girls . we had codes . places we would write love notes and hide them and knew to go to certain places to retrieve such notes. i went to the jcc and used their phone not to get busted. no one knew for 4 years that we dated. anyway one day the idea of sex came up and i would not go there with her until we were married. instead she went behind my back and had sex with someone and it destroyed my faith in hashem for years. i dumped her because she was unfaithful. i was so depressed i gained 170 lbs and wanted to die. i went through a rough period with drugs and alcohol and became thin again and started dating shiksas and having sex it was lust and not love . no one could fill that void i had in my life and i mean no one and nothing could. i was a virgin till i was 20 i felt i was a fool. i understand what you are going through. i really do. but one day i prayed to hashem in the shower with my face pressed against the tile and crying feeling the water running down my face with the tears and i said g-d please please please help me. i need to find the women . the one . the one i will marry i am tired of dating out of desperation. i was about to cancel my jdate subscription and then wham i got an email from a very very very beautiful women who;s family supports yidishkite . all my years of praying came down to hitting rock bottom and asking the man upstairs in english to help me . give me a hand and bring me back to life and make me whole again. he answered. i have 200% faith in hashem and my faith is stronger than it has been in 12 years. if you want i will give you an email to reply back to . i have taken the apporach of i dont care what others think anymore because all i need is hashem and my friends everyone else can hate away. im 32 and loving life. bob_scali@yahoo.com and fyi sex is only good when you love the one your with.

3/03/2011 02:57:00 AM  

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