Monday, April 04, 2005

Response to comments and e-mails

I have many things to say in response to comments and the e-mails I have received.

Please in the future: Instead of calling yourself Anonymous please give yourself a pseudonym of some kind so it will be easier to differentiate between the comments. When posting click on “Other” rather than “Anonymous” in order to do it that way.

Many of the comments have been very helpful and have given me chizzuk. I appreciate all the wishes that I soon find my bashert. From your computer to G-d's ears. Thanks especially to the many women who have written here or by email to tell me they relate to my words and have also been completely S.N. for many years despite their sexual appetites. It is good to know I am not alone. It worries me that there have been so few of such comments but even if we are a small group it is good to have a sisterhood. Also I was very moved by the comments to the post about the biological clock. I hope we all find a way to be happy soon. And to the men who have been S.N. or are trying hard to be: yasher kochachem, and may Hashem give you strength as well.

Thank you also to the woman who in response to the last post about taharas hamishpacha told me that TH is easier in her experience than being S.N. Your comment that being S.N. is a "gnawing desperate hopeless hunger" showed me that you truly understand and your message gave me hope, maybe just because I am so relieved that a married person really understands. Also thank you to Rabbi’s Kid for the brachah that "you find a guy and the sex is so good that he tires you out for 10-14 days a month". Your comment made me laugh because yes that is exactly what I am hoping for! Whoever my bashert is I hope he goes to the gym often because he will need good cardiovascular health for what I have planned for him! :-)

Some of the comments are well meaning but just go to show that when Hashem was distributing the gift of logical reasoning he was more generous to some than to others. V’hamayvin yavin. I say this because I want you to know that I am not blindly following any advice that is put in the comments. In particular I think I have to say that one thing I have realized by writing this blog is that getting hugs and kisses let alone sex from a man I do not know well would not make me happy. I am too sensitive to touch now and it will be my first kiss. It will mean too much to me and certainly it would mean more to me than it does to him if he has not also always been S.N. The goal is to find a relationship not to stop being S.N. with someone who does not really care about me. My threshhold of how long we have to be dating may be lower than it used to be perhaps but I still have some standards.

To all the people who have written to offer to set me up or have asked me out yourselves: I will think about each offer and see what I decide. There may be cases where I never contact you but please do not take it personally. There are many reasons that I might not contact you which I cannot explain for reasons of anonymity. For example one person wrote offering to set me up with a man who I already know.

To the man who sent me an email warning me that there are men who might try to take advantage of the vulnerability I express here on the blog, and try to weasel their way into dating me in order to take advantage of my sexual frustration and emotional vulnerability: Thank you very much for your concern and your warning. It is one reason I am being especially careful about which emails I respond to. If I do date anyone I have met directly or indirectly through this blog somehow I will have all my alert systems on!

Speaking of alert systems: To the person who wrote to me with twisted “halachic” reasons that premarital sex is preferable to being shomer negiah and suggesting that I become a pilegesh (concubine) – you are a sick and vile person. Go prey on someone who might fall for it because I certainly will not. You are a vile snake.

Yes I am very happy to date baalei teshuva.

No I did not attend Bais Yaakov. Far from it.

67 Comments:

Anonymous b,h,&E said...

NJG, while I've offered a few words of my own chizuk to you (I hope it was helpful {you need not say}), I hope you realize how much chizuk you've given me.

I'm still davening for you everyday (often more than once) and plan to continue until you and your man find eachother. May it be very soon.

4/04/2005 07:40:00 AM  
Anonymous wellwisher said...

I have been following your blog but never posted a comment. I've been trying to come up with something to say that would capture how deeply I feel for you, and how much I wish you well.

I feel that this blog has made clear the fact that the main problem is in not finding the right person. Sexual deprivation is just one of the "side effects", and I am sure the emotional lonliness, the lack of partnership is in its own way as difficult, or even more. But somehow, we suppress emotional needs (or do they come out as depression?) but the physical hunger is more insistant.

Please keep the blog going in some shape or form. Your voice is important and should be heard.

4/04/2005 07:48:00 AM  
Blogger The Rabbi's Kid said...

NJG,

I do hope those weren't close to being your final sentiments, your candour and openness is refreshing and insightful. We can never know why Hashem puts us in certain situations, but I can say for myself and through some of the comments that you are giving us strength in our struggles as well. I think many guys would be interested in hearing about more religious girls who have to deal with their sexual urges, like many guys do, in an open and mature fashion. Let's open the floor for this important, educational and instructive discussion.

TRK

4/04/2005 08:06:00 AM  
Anonymous b,h,&E said...

TRK,
I like your posts, but I would disagree with the closing lines in your last one.
it would be a very bad idea (though I'm sure some guys would probably be interested).

4/04/2005 08:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

Oh I am late for work.

Rabbi's Kid . . . you seem like a really sincere young man who is compassionate and wants women to be happy. This bodes well for your future as a husband. But I agree with BH&E that it would be inappropriate (on this blog at least) to open a talk to the men about how we can encourage more women to use vibrators. Meaning, I hope women will read my own posts and feel less embarrassed about buying one if they decide to do it but it is not up to you, a young man, to get involved in that issue. Leave it to the women! (But thank you for your concern, and I have the feeling that your wife will be a lucky woman.)

4/04/2005 08:18:00 AM  
Blogger The Rabbi's Kid said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/04/2005 08:19:00 AM  
Blogger The Rabbi's Kid said...

NJG,

You are too kind (though a bit less of the "young man" please!). I accept your point that it may be inappropriate, maybe you can creatively find a way to encourage women to open up without it becoming lurid and voyeuristic.

Furthermore, does anyone have suggestions or experience how religious singles can try and fill the emotional need (without derogating form the importance of marriage, of course)?

TRK

4/04/2005 09:23:00 AM  
Blogger Daphna said...

Actually, the whole "emotional need" thing gets tricky. I find that there are a lot of guys who tend to have very, very close female friends. They never date them (even though the women often carry a torch), but from these women they get emotional support, companionship, Shabbat meals, someone to go to the movies with etc. Oh...and a way to get what they need, emotionally, while putting off getting married. And all the while the poor women are often sitting there waiting for him to wake up and say "wow--that X is really the one for me!" Which, of course never happens. What does usually happen is that he meets someone else, usually much younger, and then the poor woman is not only disappointed, but she also looses a friend b/c generally the new wife will not appreciate all of these old close female friends staying in the picture. There really does not seem to be too much of a point in it for the woman to develop such friendships.

This is a sort of touchy area and I realize that there are lots of different opinions here!

4/04/2005 09:52:00 AM  
Blogger Daphna said...

Actually, the whole "emotional need" thing gets tricky. I find that there are a lot of guys who tend to have very, very close female friends. They never date them (even though the women often carry a torch), but from these women they get emotional support, companionship, Shabbat meals, someone to go to the movies with etc. Oh...and a way to get what they need, emotionally, while putting off getting married. And all the while the poor women are often sitting there waiting for him to wake up and say "wow--that X is really the one for me!" Which, of course never happens. What does usually happen is that he meets someone else, usually much younger, and then the poor woman is not only disappointed, but she also looses a friend b/c generally the new wife will not appreciate all of these old close female friends staying in the picture. There really does not seem to be too much of a point in it for the woman to develop such friendships.

This is a sort of touchy area and I realize that there are lots of different opinions here!

4/04/2005 09:52:00 AM  
Anonymous positive man said...

TRK...I'll posit that the emotional "void" can somewhat be alleviated by one's following the dictum "Lo Tov Levado" to as great a degree as possible, short of getting married. That is, simply being around people, friends, yadda yadda..

Being involved, preoccupied, what have you, and spending minimum time 'alone', seems to have salubrious results.

NJG...G-d bless you many, many times over...we're all rooting for you...all of us...single and married...can't wait to hear good news from you...and real soon, too...

4/04/2005 09:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a male I can tell you that the Harchakot are for your own good. After a while a male will get tired and need a rest no matter how much you want to hug him. This forced break only makes it better later. So do yourself a favor and keep evrything if you want a realy good time.

4/04/2005 02:54:00 PM  
Anonymous blair said...

dear good jewish girl
every time i read your blog i cry. you seems like an incredible thoughtful intelligent strong woman. i just really wanted to give you a bracha that you find a wonderful thoughtful intelligent sweet kind funny attractive man to share your life with. May it be soon, and may you build a life of joy and judaism. i'm not a "i'll daven for you" kind of person, but i'll daven for you.
keep writing!

4/04/2005 07:31:00 PM  
Anonymous microfish said...

I've been through 2 small periods of celibacy (4.5 and 5 years), the last about to end at age 46. I found it infuriating to hear married or coupled people saying "There now, you'll find somebody soon." These people didn't have a clue! (btw, I'm a righteous gentile, and while not NT, I wouldn't have had those celibate periods if I'd lacked some scruples ;)) They'd not been out looking for a mate, not been celibate for any appreciable amount of time as an adult. Had no concept of simple but profound skin hunger - the need for touch by a mate.

I have no advice for you that you haven't heard and only small understanding of your situation.

I do hope for change in your life.

Thank you for blogging...

4/04/2005 09:27:00 PM  
Anonymous cloojew said...

Lulei demistafina, you have to admit that Daphna nailed it: if men can get what they want/need (including the sex) without the commitment, they will never get married. This is what has happened to secular society and it has spilled out to ours as well.

Unfortunately the suffering is the other side of the fallout. But at least there's hope.

4/04/2005 10:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

QUOTE
Whoever my bashert is I hope he goes to the gym often because he will need good cardiovascular health for what I have planned for him! :-)
ENDQUOTE

Big talker!

What I mean is that its your hormones talkiing.

(I know your prolly gonna delete this comment. But its still the truest thing written here yet!)

What I mean is that you're talking like this because of your current state of not being taken care of. When you are taken care of, then you won't have to think like this and you'll just want sex about as often as most normal people, say 2-5 times a month depending on how tired you get from job, kids, meetings, blogging, ect...

Seems sad but true! But its acutally just true, not sad at all

4/04/2005 11:20:00 PM  
Blogger Girl Seeking said...

Dear Last Anon,

I disagree with you.

I (personal life choices aside) still have desires more than that, and I'm being taken care of just fine.

It's all in the individual.

NJG, for you I say, he wouldn't be bashert if he couldn't keep up with you. ;)

-R

4/05/2005 12:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Another Nice Jewish Girl said...

Hi,

I am "only" in my mid-to-late 20s, but I have also never been kissed. To make matters worse, my family is far from affectionate, so I've really not been hugged or missed much at all, in all my years here on Earth. I, too have suffered from depression. I have been SN "by default," as they say, with one minor exception in college, which left me feeling like sh*t.

I agree with Daphna's analysis of guys with close female friends. I have been that "close female friend" FAR too often to keep track of, and when the guy starts dating some hot young chik, it ALWAYS sucks. I am trying to be friends mostly with women now...

I disagree with cloojew, though. The men still get married, that's not the problem! The problem is that the women end up heartbroken and alone.

In utter sympathy,
Another Nice Jewish Girl

4/05/2005 12:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

cloojew,
what does lulei demistafina mean?

4/05/2005 01:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Aryeh said...

My wife and I have been reading your blog with a great deal of attention. We both want to thank you for it.
We have been married for 13 years now with some ups and downs in our marriage. Things have not always been perfect.
We do not always realize how so lucky we are just to have each other, and a reminder is sometimes helpfull. We also sometimes forget our obligation to help the singles in our community by opening our home and hearts to them, a reminder in that area is alwyas in place.
We admire you, and daven for you daily. We hope that you will one day find a man that will be all the things you are dreaming of.

4/05/2005 02:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

I can't sleep. Insomnia: Another sign that my therapy is necessary.

Cloojew . . . please explain what "lulei dimistafina" means. You keep using that phrase and I do not know what it means and am sure that many readers do not know either.

Another Nice Jewish Girl . . . Thank you for responding. I agree that the problem is not becoming friends with men (because sometimes the friendships do lead to marriage, or stay platonic and are therefore nice on both sides) but it is indeed very painful when you become friends with a man and you want to date him and then he does not want to date you. It is a terrible feeling. And then they marry someone else - always someone younger! Typical! Of course I am sure there are also many instances of men who would like to date their female friend and the female friend is not interested and marries someone else. That happens too.

4/05/2005 04:43:00 AM  
Blogger The Rabbi's Kid said...

Daphna, NJG and ANJG,

"And all the while the poor women are often sitting there waiting for him to wake up and say "wow--that X is really the one for me!" Which, of course never happens"

Call me modern, enlightened and egalitarian, but why don't you tell them how you feel? Let me tell you some stuff about us males; We are awful at reading signs, many of us are too scared to ask a friend out in case of rejection and spoiling our friendship, and often when we discover someone is interested in us we look at them in a new light.

TRK

4/05/2005 06:05:00 AM  
Anonymous wellwisher said...

anonymous:

2-5 times a month?! what are you talking about? I've been married for 12 years and 2-5 times a WEEK (during non-nidah times, but even when i'm pregnant and nursing, and tahor for years on end) is more like it.

4/05/2005 08:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Lonely in disguise said...

Forgive me if I don't seem to be very compassionate about your plight. It's not that I don't feel for you, but sometimes I WISH I would be single.

How it can be worse:
Be married to someone who's emotions are totally shut down.
The only reason you want to go to the mikvah, is to be able to bash his face in.
In addition to that, you can't ever feel loved and wanted, because you're already married. You are also pretending to be extremely happy, so you can't even tell people how lonely you are.

I will daven that you find the right one, someone who will make you feel special for the rest of your life. Believe me, if you find the right one, it's worth waiting for.

4/05/2005 08:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Mike Baraness said...

I would like to invite you to attend Aish HaTorah slash Discovery events that discuss your issues. You will find enlightened people, in a fun and studious setting to learn Torah and gain REAL Chizzuk that will help you attain your goal.

4/05/2005 09:50:00 AM  
Blogger Eliana said...

I read your blog as I think it was intended: as an outlet for feelings unexpressed elsewhere, and have resisted the urge to offer you any sort of advice. Firstly, it doesn't seem like you asked for it. Secondly, I have my own dating issues and a gnawing loneliness that is not unlike yours, yet wholly different from yours at the same time--and no answers for myself, let alone another person. And thirdly, you're getting plenty of unhelpful free advice already, from people far closer to your background who may understand better than I do.

That said, I'll just suggest two websites I just found, not so mmuch for you as I suspect you know about them already, but for anyone in your situation.

www.frumsky.com
www.frumster.com

Jewish on-line dating sources for the halachically observant.

I hope we all find the love we crave.

4/05/2005 10:19:00 AM  
Blogger The Rabbi's Kid said...

lonely in disguise,

your plight sounds terrible. is there some kind of counselling that would help?

also, are there lessons you could pass on to singles?

TRK

4/05/2005 10:44:00 AM  
Anonymous jessica said...

s.n. -

you seem like a lovely person and i wish you all the best in your quest to find a husband and a good marriage.

as a reform jew, i don't really identify with a lot of your struggle, but i find you candor and openness very touching and genuine.

i'm sure there's someone out there for you.

i do wonder where a blog about sexual desire falls on the spectrum of sexual behavior. sometimes venting is a means to an end - it realeases some of the tension that has built up. I guess my question is this - if you're not supposed to have sex, are you really supposed to talk about it so publicly? i think it's great, but then, i'm not saving it for marriage, either.

4/05/2005 10:56:00 AM  
Blogger Daphna said...

"Call me modern, enlightened and egalitarian, but why don't you tell them how you feel? Let me tell you some stuff about us males; We are awful at reading signs, many of us are too scared to ask a friend out in case of rejection and spoiling our friendship, and often when we discover someone is interested in
us we look at them in a new light."

Because some things don't change all that much, and the nature of men (and women) are among them. Younger guys may well be shy and thrilled to have the woman make the move. As they get older that changes. By my age (mid 30's)...if the guy is interested, he will go after you. If he does not, he is not interested. For that matter, (and this is so non-PC), when my friends and I were younger, we had no problem with a guy too scared to make a move...but as we have gotten older...who wants a guy without spine? Can this guy function in the real world or is he going to be the world's doormat? I am not talking about a He-man here...just a guy who knows what he wants, knows he wants to get married (as opposed to always having "friends"), knows he finds me attractive, and has enough chutzpa to ask me out for coffee!

Part of this is personal taste-wimpy guys just do not do it for me.

4/05/2005 11:05:00 AM  
Anonymous marriedGuy said...

I'm the anonymous who wrote the thing about the 2-5 times a month.

lulei demistafina means, "If only I weren't afraid." Its a Rabbinic phrase introducing a controversial statement that you want to make but are not willing to take take responsibility for its implicatons.

It would be a good name for a blog! And guess what luleidemistafina.blogspot.com is not taken yet. So go get it someone!

And here's a blog thread that ties in to some of what's been discussed here.

http://jerusalemrevealed.blogspot.com/2004/10/multiple-orgasms-indeed.html

4/05/2005 01:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Rick Pearlstein said...

It seems very logical that since her adherence to this strict religious stricture, has not worked out for her, she should move on from it. Date non religious serious minded males and be done w/ the problem.

4/05/2005 02:30:00 PM  
Anonymous wellwisher said...

i don't think it is keeping the laws which has caused all this pain, it is not finding the right person to love and be intimate with.

4/05/2005 03:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Mighty Man said...

Daphna,

I don't get it. You say you don't want wimpy men but then it sounds like a justification so that you don't have to pursue the men you are interested in.

Men appreciated women with guts too.

4/05/2005 05:20:00 PM  
Anonymous b,h,&E said...

Rick,
Perhaps you are misunderstanding something: G-d didn't say "just do what feels good"; G-d said "Keep my mitzvos".
Think about it.

4/05/2005 06:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Hobbes said...

Daphna,

your first comment was very true. i'm a single religious male, i'll be 30 in two monthes, and i also was never kissed...(for you: i never kissed).

but your reply to TRK (i'm with you, buddy) made me blow a little fuse.

Don't EVER think that if a guy is too shy to as k you out or to make a move. it means he's not interested. doesn't matter how old he is. it's true that men and women have different personalities, but if you plan to wait for the guy to always be the first to say something, than you lose the right to complain about it.
women who want to be equal in many areas shouldn't suddenly become the shrinking violet when it somes to relationships.
IMHO, a woman your age who still waits for the guy at all times to make the first move is the problematic one herself.
like TRK said - if you're interested and your male friend doesn't get it - it's in your hands only to try and move forward on that.
I know about myself that when i like a girl i try to make a move, but it's very hard - and so if i'm not realy sure about her or they way she feels abuot me, i end up doing nothing. i can think of quite a few girls i'll be happy to meet if only i knew (they don't have to tell me, just make sure i know, if you catch my drift) that they're interested.

4/05/2005 07:06:00 PM  
Blogger The Rabbi's Kid said...

Rick, you are not being fair to NJG and should re-read some of her old posts. This is something that most religiously observant Jews believe is a law binding on them (whether they keep it or not). ALso, she has said she would have some physical contact with THE RIGHT GUY, who has yet to enter the picture. Have some empathy please.

hobbes, thanks for the support. I posted on this on my blog as well.

ps say hi to Calvin (or the pet Leviathan, depending on the level of your humor)

TRK

4/05/2005 07:21:00 PM  
Anonymous cloojew said...

MarriedGuy (who I smacked in a comment to a previous post) writes:
lulei demistafina means, "If only I weren't afraid." Its a Rabbinic phrase introducing a controversial statement that you want to make but are not willing to take take responsibility for its implicatons.

Not so. The literal translation is on the mark, but it is used as a sign of respect when disagreeing with or commentiong upon others' opinions.

For the record, I take full responsibility for the implications of all my comments.

4/06/2005 12:32:00 AM  
Anonymous cloojew said...

Hobbes may have a point, but lulei demistafina, I would say that Daphna is much more on the mark: Older (30+) guys will either let you know they're interested, or they are too repressed for their (and possibly your) own good.

On another note, I think there are dozens of guys (TRK comes first to mind) who are seriously attracted to NJG right at this moment based on her inner beauty. It just goes to show you that an attraction can be built up without actually seeing the person. And unless NJG is truly hideous (pls forgive me for even writing that), my guess is that the attraction stands.

Wouldn't it be a great way to end this blog with NJG marrying one of her readers? As Paris Hilton would say: Now THAT's hot!

4/06/2005 12:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dear NJG,
your writing touched my heart. I imagin there isn't much that I can offer you, except my depest sympathy and true hope you find your happiness. I am still very young and far from marrige, and I'm also not religious so when I face lonliness and suffering I can't find my peace by thinking of the god or his plans for us, humans.
what I can do is set my soul free through the phisycal forms of god: a tree, my baby sister, music.
I hope you find your concelation as well as your hapiness, remember you are never as lonely as you think.

4/06/2005 07:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Rabbi Rich Aish said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/06/2005 09:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Rabbi Rick Aish said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/06/2005 10:16:00 AM  
Anonymous ZSJ said...

Kavod Ha"Rav"- I'm in shock that you would even dare to suggest such ridiculous things. You clearly have zero clue what she's going through. "Celebrate"???

Have you actually taken the time to read any of NJG's blog? Or are you writing at the behest of that Magic Touch woman?

4/06/2005 02:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Rabbi Rich Aish said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/06/2005 03:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Rabbi Rick Aish said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/06/2005 03:50:00 PM  
Anonymous carnal plight said...

As a forty-something single guy, I kinda agree with Aish. I was so proud of myself being S.N. till 25...which is when I broke it. Wish I hadn't. Gained nothing... except for some short-lived self-confidence. Have been pretty much S.N. since. It is truly hellish. Watching life, body, energy slipping by. Quite a G-d we have here...ay? Definitely would rather be dead than 'experience' this crap.

And yeah Aish...Crosby, Stills...and the rest of classical rock...heck, they ROCK man! The Creator, or at least the 'search' is tangible in that music. But at least most of those guys had gf's, so they were taken 'care' of.

Where the hell does that leave all of US, though?!! Don't find myself getting more loyal to Hashem. Living like a monk and all. And girls like NJG as nuns. What gives? What's He up to? This sucks! Yuk!!

4/06/2005 04:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Rabbi Rick Aish said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/06/2005 04:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Rabbi Rick Aish said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/06/2005 04:26:00 PM  
Anonymous b,h,&E said...

CP,
G-d didn't ask you to be a monk. You just haven't gotten married.
Your either a victim of circumstance or possibly the victim of your own decisions.

btw, I also think that aish's idea was pretty bad. I can't imagine being on a level where I could do that and I don't think most people could do that either. (if he can, well, i'm impressed; but he can't rightfully expect or suggest such loftiness from normal people.)

again, the problem is being single -- not Hashem, not halacha, and not hormones.

(interestingly, of the handful of complaints against G-d as to why He made the halachos He did, I don't think anyone complained "why did you give us such strong libidos and such a wonderful appreciation for sex?" I'm not saying that either question is appropriate, but I think it's an interesting observation.)

p.s. CP, I tip my proverbial hat to you that despite the struggle, you are still fighting to keep halacha. stay strong and keep looking.

4/06/2005 06:00:00 PM  
Anonymous cloojew said...

b,h,&E, lulei demistafina, what about the gay guy who is frum who has no outlet halachically and no HOPE for one?

G-d's mysteries, but the Halachah remains intact.

4/06/2005 06:17:00 PM  
Blogger The Rabbi's Kid said...

cj (if I may be so informal),

the frum gay guy is a related but whole new topic, and I doubt that this is the forum. Maybe I'll get round to posting about it on my blog soon.

b,h&e,

G-d gave us such strong hormones otherwise we wouldn't bother going through the hassle and heartache to find a mate, we'd spend our whole lives vegetating as couch potatoes and the human race wouldn't have lasted very long!

NJG,

We're on tenterhooks (at least I am - though come to think of it I've never seen a tenterhook - is it Yiddish?) for your next post.

TRK

4/06/2005 06:56:00 PM  
Anonymous b,h,&e said...

I suppose my last point wasn't clear enough. I was just illustrating that people more readily object to what G-d expects of them, and forgets about all He does for them. (i.e. that he gave us this wonderful thing called sex at all.)

in terms of the person with homosexual tendencies: I feel bad for him, but it goes back to what I've been saying all along, namely, that halacha is halacha. It's difficult sometimes -- sometimes extremely difficult -- but that's what it is.

(btw, though I'm not gay and I suppose that many gay people out who may read this will probably object: I think that a) therapy can help; b) though it may be very awkward, they should try and "relieve their tension" the way nature intended it be done. I'm not saying that they're life will be one of constant joy thereafter, only that it's a possibility.)

trk, small point, but G-d could just have had us reproduce like ameobas, or He could have created a way for us to multiply that simply didn't necessitate giving to mankind the wonderful feeling of sexual pleasure.
We should be grateful.

4/06/2005 07:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Rabbi Rick Eesh Aish said...

It is not lofty what I am suggesting. Here she goes around life feeling miserable. I am showing her how to shift her attitude. The same way as this fellow, he walks around in a daze. How did he get to such a filthy degrading job in the warehouse? Instead of utilizing the free time that he does have to learning skills that will land him a better job. What is the profit in feeling miserable? You tell me. It perpetuates the vicious cycle.

4/06/2005 07:54:00 PM  
Anonymous b,h,&e said...

rick,
I didn't say your point was stupid or illogical (I don't think it is), only that it's lofty. Very much so, at that.

And if you can't recognize that... well, then I'm not going to try and explain it to you. I just don't have the patience for it.

take care.

4/06/2005 08:39:00 PM  
Anonymous carnal plight said...

b,h,&e,

Thanks for the hat tip and good words.

You wrote:
> Your either a victim of circumstance or possibly the victim of your own decisions.

So far as I know, probably a victim of both ...
not that I think I've ever met 'her' and rejected 'her'...
in fact i'm sure I haven't ... but we all know that this is G-d's full - time occupation after Creation ...
i.e., "Yoshev U'mezavaig Zeevugim" ...
hence, the miraculous nature of all shidduchim ... marriages ...
and hence, it is NOT beyond the pale to ask for a 'miracle' to happen ... no matter what one has or hasn't done ... and hey, let's face it ... He IS pretty capable ...

Your 'strong libido' observation was on the mark.
I distinctly recall, when at the peak ( no pun intended ) of youthful manhood,
I would ask G-d why He would do this without providing the proper outlet.

Tack onto that the incessant waiting consequent to that,
and multiply it by all the singles 'looking', and you have one immense tragedy ...
of untold proportion ... this is HIS doing ... think Holocaust ...
at least emotionally ... physically too ...

I forget which commenter said something akin to "you don't need to mate, as you do air and water" ...

That's a cop-out. The Torah specifically compares a woman to bread,
cf. story of Joseph and 'that' mistress.
The 'hunger' is tangible, unbearable, and can lead to death, emotional if not physical.

4/06/2005 09:52:00 PM  
Anonymous b,h,&e said...

CP,
I don't think this problem is "His" doing. Either emotionally or physically.
Remember, this is (from what I see) a relatively new phenomenon, and my only conclusion is that it is a result of our culture and upbringing -- not judaism.

also, I think equating it with the holocaust is extreme, but you're right, people need mates. For companionship, sex, the ability to raise children, and many other things.

G-d knows this. That's why He created the man-woman marriage system. "Its not good for man to be alone..." He DID "give us an outlet".

But we must do our part (I'm not saying that you're not, I just want to emphasize my position on this), we gotta find the right girl (/guy) -- or at least one we're comfortable sharing our lives with.

Because judaism is not about suffering for suffering's sake, nor is it about avoiding the world or completely abstaining from its normal and natural pleasures. Far from it.

And as I've begun recently to daven for NJG (haven't missed a day), I've also begun to daven for all the singles in general. I hope our prayers are answered soon.

chazak!

4/07/2005 03:35:00 AM  
Anonymous chaimyankel said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/07/2005 07:42:00 AM  
Anonymous b,h,&e said...

wow.

4/07/2005 08:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Eesh Aish said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/07/2005 09:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/07/2005 09:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Eesh Aish said...

Angel, I am so sorry to upset you about that, please I will refrain from this in the future. I am a very big newbie regarding blogging but i have downloaded, Blogging for Dummies and will read it.

4/07/2005 11:33:00 AM  
Anonymous cloojew said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/07/2005 06:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Shayna Bracha said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/08/2005 08:26:00 AM  
Anonymous b,h,&e said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/08/2005 09:28:00 AM  
Blogger Nice Jewish Guy said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/11/2005 10:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's with all the deleted comments?

6/03/2005 12:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Speaking of alert systems: To the person who wrote to me with twisted “halachic” reasons that premarital sex is preferable to being shomer negiah and suggesting that I become a pilegesh (concubine) – you are a sick and vile person. Go prey on someone who might fall for it because I certainly will not. You are a vile snake.
"
That person quoted the opinion of Rabbi Yakov Emden from Pilegesh.Blogspot.com
He didn't say you should become a pilegesh or that it's better than being shomeret negia he said that you should look into it. If you research it further you'd realize it's probably not such a bad sugestion as you may think.

odom (author of www.pilegesh.blogspot.com ) said...
As an alternative to marriage
Pilegesh relationships whould open opportunities for relationships
without the financial burden/expense , obligatory burdens
and halachic restrictions of marriage
(Not to mention divorce procedures with all the legal fees, Get procedures , emotional and psychological stress and hurt if the relationship does not last ,
which is avoided and non existant in a pilegesh relashionship.)
And allow many single individuals a chance at a relationship/s that they otherwise would not attempt
or consider.
A happy pilegesh relationship could
very-well lead to a happy Marriage
and Sheva Brachos (not livatolos)

11:45 PM

6/23/2005 05:11:00 PM  
Blogger emeslyaakov said...

I am old enough to be your father and wish for you all of the brachos that a father wishes for a daughter. I too have a daughter, she is 29 single and on the west side.

When she moved to the west side, she justified the additional rent because that was THE place for shiduchim.

My perspective on this is that the guys have a free ride - shabbes meals, companionship, some girls are ok for tephillin dates. No one is kicking these guys from behind and saying get married already. If they are getting what they think they want or need without any real responsibility, they will take it. In the meantime, everyone gets older.

There is another halacha which is not much discussed these days. If a man is not married by age 20, the halacha in the gemorra is that we force him to get married. The Rama says that the minhag is not to force men these days. For force, read beat up until he agrees.

The exception is for someone who is completely involved in learning Torah. Very few men are so involved with learning Torah that they meat this exception. why aren't the West Side rabbis sitting down with these men one at a time and laying down the law? Make them uncomfortable for being unwilling to commit.

You are being good, and are highly to be commended, but those who are not being good are making it harder for everyone to get married.

May Hashem send to you, and all other Jewish unmarried girls/women (it may not be pc, but for some of us, an unmarried guy is a bochur even if he is sixty, and an unmarried female is a girl) the proper shidduch speedily and may you be zocheh to a long and happy life together.

7/09/2006 02:30:00 AM  
Anonymous BeingSingleSucks said...

I am so sorry that you have been through so much pain. I was in a similiar position, and then I started working with Malka Shaw - a therapist in Passaic NJ.. she works out of Dr Solomon's office, she really seemed to understand the struggles of "older single and being frum" and how pathetic many of the men and the struggles with shomar negiah.. I also was suffering from depression and anxiety and working through many of the issues was extremely helpful, But I highly recomend only working with a FRUM THERAPIST

6/17/2011 10:08:00 AM  

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