Thursday, March 31, 2005

Hypocrisy

At first I resented the comments of people who said “come on, just stop being Shomer Negiah. How ridiculously religious can you be?” because if they were saying “just stop” then obviously they did not read my blog carefully and did not understand how complicated this all is for me. With whom do they think I should be not-S.N.? A random man on the street? But after thinking about it I understand the comment better because frankly deep down I have the same attitude about Orthodox men who do not pleasure themselves. The idea that there are men who do not even – you know – leaves me speechless and a little angry. “God will understand” I want to tell them. Just go ahead and do it. Have some joy in your life. Do not let religion ruin your life and your happiness. All the things that people are saying to me about negiah, see? But now I stop to think about it I realize that it is just my way of putting them down to make myself seem better. I know that I would never have the strength to do what they do and it is easier to pressure them to sin or decide there must be something psychologically wrong with them than to admit that I am more dependent on self-pleasure than they are or that I do not have as much self-control or dedication to halacha as they do. We all do that I suppose. But it is not nice.

15 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In case you don't know, according to halacha, women are allowed to pleasure themselves. So you don't have to feel bad about that.

3/31/2005 01:12:00 PM  
Anonymous shanna said...

I think the "hypocrisy" is not that she masturbates when she shouldn't (because she is permitted to do so, as you pointed out), but that she tells men to masturbate (assur) because it's no big deal, but then gets offended when non-SN people tell her not to be SN (also arguably assur) because "it's no big deal."

3/31/2005 01:34:00 PM  
Anonymous shanna said...

I think the "hypocrisy" is not that she masturbates when she shouldn't (because she is permitted to do so, as you pointed out), but that she tells men to masturbate (assur) because it's no big deal, but then gets offended when non-SN people tell her not to be SN (also arguably assur) because "it's no big deal."

3/31/2005 01:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

Actually what I meant by hypocrisy is that I think men should sin by masturbating and then I get offended when people tell me to sin by going out and "find someone, anyone" to make out with.

I think there is a difference between relieving a physical urge and allowing someone else to use me for his own physical urges when I do not know him well.

Still it is a little hypocritical. I should give men who manage to keep halacha the benefit of the doubt.

3/31/2005 01:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Nice Jewish Girl said...

Sorry I missread Shanna's comment. Shanna was right.

3/31/2005 02:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At least you finally, men have it a thousand times worse then you do. Even after marriage (ie: after your wife gives birth and you need to wait two months or more for relations).

3/31/2005 03:57:00 PM  
Anonymous ClooJew said...

Lulei demistafina, the hardest thing for a man is not being able to choke the chicken, flog the dolphin, spank the monkey, throttle the....oh, you get the picture.

Fact is: it's assur. So is negia.

Dealing with the issur is another thing. Just because G-d is forgiving doesn't mean He is allowing.

If a man's reach does not exceed his grasp, then what's a Yom Kippur for?

3/31/2005 07:35:00 PM  
Anonymous cloojew said...

I must add, lulei demistafina, that I was concerned by your comment "Do not let religion ruin your life and your happiness."

Granted living a halachic life to the fullest can be uncomfortable to the point of excruciation, nonetheless, do you truly believe that it is ruinous? that violating halachah will lead you to happiness?

3/31/2005 07:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

perhaps it leads to it in this world, cloo.
especially if you are potentially discussing issurei d'rabbonon that in theory might have been adjusted by sanhedrin for a different society if we had a sanhedrin.

3/31/2005 08:22:00 PM  
Anonymous cloojew said...

Which issurei dirabbonon that fall outside of "Lo sikrevu lechol erva" and would not cause our dear NJG not to end up in bed with a man prior to kiddushin did you have in mind?

3/31/2005 08:46:00 PM  
Anonymous cloojew said...

Which issurei dirabbonon that fall outside of "Lo sikrevu lechol erva" and would not cause our dear NJG not to end up in bed with a man prior to kiddushin did you have in mind?

3/31/2005 08:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice Jewish Girl, your hypocrisy is also empathy. You feel that you are compelled to pleasure yourself. For you, forgoing this activity would be unthinkable, almost like death, as you wrote. So when you consider what the Halacha demands of men in this regard you just can't come to terms with it. And this is out of empathy for men who are faced with anxieties due to unfulfilled needs just like you are, but have no access to the proven relief medication.

I think I'm reading you right here. If I am, then the issue at "hand" might be more significant than you thought for you and for the many men and women (but mostly men) who struggle with this issue.

4/01/2005 08:27:00 AM  
Blogger The Lioness said...

"I think there is a difference between relieving a physical urge and allowing someone else to use me for his own physical urges when I do not know him well."

Especially if you view it as the man "using you for his own physical urges". In this sense, it's very wise not to because it might break you.

4/01/2005 12:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Another Nice Jewish Girl said...

One of the anonymi wrote:

> At least you finally, men have it a thousand times worse
> then you do. Even after marriage (ie: after your wife gives
> birth and you need to wait two months or more for
> relations).

I'm sorry, but my sympathy here lies with the woman who has given birth, may still be experiencing bleeding, if she is nursing probably has sore nipples and infected breasts, etc. Get over it, anonymous! (I am not denying that it is terrible to be a shomer mitzvot man who does not masturbate. Only that the "two months" after his wife has given birth thing does not make me all that sympathetic.)

4/05/2005 02:18:00 AM  
Blogger pesematology said...

my last post at khrah.blogspot.com deals a little bit with this issue, and the idea that maybe god didn't mean it all literally? i don't know any jews who are never sarcastic or at least roundabout in what they are saying. if we're created in god's image god must be a sarcastic old joker. http://khrah.blogspot.com/2005/12/i-just-read-mobius-post-from-whenever.html

12/13/2005 06:02:00 AM  

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