Commenters
A few days ago I got very annoyed by many of the comments and deleted some because some commenters left “advice” that I believed to be not only irrelevent to my situation but possibly harmful to other people who might read it. Then other readers reacted to them and the commenters ended up having arguments about issues that had very little to do with being S.N. so I just erased the whole thing, the whole argument. Some people are very very annoying!
I noticed that lately very few women have been commenting and I wonder why. Are women more shy? Have the male commenters been driving women away? Is it because men relate to my blog more than women do? I am curious to know why it is the case that most of the commenters are men. Or at least most of the repeat commenters are men. There are some women who have left very beautiful comments but then they seem to disappear. I would like to hear from them more.
I have also noticed that not so many commenters have never broken being S.N.into their thirties. Most people who comment or send me emails say “I am S.N. but broke it a few years ago one time” or “I was S.N. until I got married when I was 25” or things like that. If you are S.N. and in your 30’s or older and have Never Been Kissed please speak up. Please leave a comment even if it is anonymous and only says “36 and never been kissed in New Jersey” or “I am 33 and have never been kissed on the Upper West Side” or something like that. If you could also write how you manage to stay so strong and how you deal with the frustration that would also help so much! If there are not so many of you then really I am starting to feel like the last gullible goody-goody seminary girl remaining on earth!
I noticed that lately very few women have been commenting and I wonder why. Are women more shy? Have the male commenters been driving women away? Is it because men relate to my blog more than women do? I am curious to know why it is the case that most of the commenters are men. Or at least most of the repeat commenters are men. There are some women who have left very beautiful comments but then they seem to disappear. I would like to hear from them more.
I have also noticed that not so many commenters have never broken being S.N.into their thirties. Most people who comment or send me emails say “I am S.N. but broke it a few years ago one time” or “I was S.N. until I got married when I was 25” or things like that. If you are S.N. and in your 30’s or older and have Never Been Kissed please speak up. Please leave a comment even if it is anonymous and only says “36 and never been kissed in New Jersey” or “I am 33 and have never been kissed on the Upper West Side” or something like that. If you could also write how you manage to stay so strong and how you deal with the frustration that would also help so much! If there are not so many of you then really I am starting to feel like the last gullible goody-goody seminary girl remaining on earth!
posted by Shomer Negiah at 4/10/2005 11:56:00 AM
20 Comments:
There are many "goody-goody seminary girls." You are not alone.
I think perhaps they don't post comments because, lulei demistafina, they find the very discussion uncomfortable, that rather than making them feel better it makes them feel untniusdik. PLEASE don't misunderstand (you've already deleted me twice; I am NOT trying to anger you) I'm not saying they SHOULD feel this way; only that perhaps they do.
Men, even the frummest of men, are perhps more able to find release and catharsis in this process. Especially if its anonymous.
I am just writing to say that though I am married, I was sn until I got married, and I can very much relate to a lot of what you are saying as I am one of those rare (and I really do think we are rare) women with a very strong sex drive (even stronger than my husband's) and a very strong need for human touch in general. It affects me when I can't touch my husband as a niddah, and it affects me when life situations prevent us from being together as much as I would like. Sometimes I feel like there is something wrong with me, and it is just nice to read your blog and know that there is another frum women out there who thinks about sex as much as I do. I'm basically just writing to let you know that you are not crazy, and that I can't imagine the pain you must be in because of it. I know there is nothing I can say to make it better, but I will keep you in my tfilot.
i've talked to other frum girls about this. it's not rare.
I have at least one friend who is 36 and never been kissed, and possibly others who are not so forthcoming about their situations.
I'm 30, never been kissed or anythinged (held hands in one relationship that had no meaning for me)-- just to further identify myself, I'm the one who left the comment about struggling with the need to have children, even if it is alone. I identify with what you write more than I sometimes let myself acknowledge.
My bf had his first kiss last year at the age of 26, and he is not even Jewish or SN. He just was very shy around girls until a much later age than most. But although I wouldn't wish that on anyone, I believe his wait makes our relationship sweeter now because he appreciates it so much more and that makes me feel special too. ^_^ (I am also a bit of a 'late bloomer' but not as late as him)
Anyway, again I send my best wishes that you can find happiness in your life as it is and share it with someone else soon.
"I can very much relate to a lot of what you are saying as I am one of those rare (and I really do think we are rare) women with a very strong sex drive (even stronger than my husband's)"
Oh, I don't think it's rare at all. I think a lot of women express this in terms of needing physical contact and affection, but it's physical contact that leads to sex that they want...:)
NJG:
I've commented a few times but unless it's relevant to the comment, I don't point out that I'm a woman - just as people may not mention if they are married or not, SN or not, unless it pertains directly to their comment.
Thinking about this, I realize that if I were a guy, I'd probably state that upfront even if it wasn't directly relevant to my comment, because I might feel otherwise that I was peering...or that my life experience is fundamentally different to yours..
My impression is that many commenters who don't identify themselves as male or female are female. Maybe there are more women commenters than you realize?
About kissing, you should know that in my experience this is one of the pleasantries that has been discarded in my marriage for the most part & this brings me great grief. When we were courting, I recall vividly how we would kiss for hours at every opportunity. I would pick her up at the airport, I would drive immediatly to a quiet street and we would kiss for 20 minutes. Now this rarely happens. So when it is your time, please always kiss your husband passionately.
But seriously, y'all ave seen Men are from Mars...
A woman would often listen to express empathy. Men want to solve problems, so they feel the need to explain themselves and find an emotional and/or practical solution
Btw: I live in Silver Spring, MD and I know some people (men) who are looking If interested, my email: jsbrads@yahoo.com, please send some general info and possibly the email of your shadchan and I will pass it to the local powers that be...
I do not agree that men do not express sympathy or empathize. I do and I am a man. I have cried tears after having read the Kallah's posts.
I also it is true have made many suggestions as have many others, both male and female.
I would make more suggestions, but I get a sense that the Kallah doesn't want to take anything any further, I could be wrong. It would be a shame, because the Kallah has unleashed a tremendous positive force into my world and perhaps thousands of others. It would be a shame to let this force die, but this could be the Kallah's wishes.
deeni,
I would like to ask you, lulei demistafina, what your reaction is to all this?
Are you a "goody-goody" seminary girl? (what about one goody?) Is the issue of "frumslip" so prevalent? Is it THAT difficult?
I'm 33, on the UWS, and have NBK. I just came across this blog yesterday and this is not the only post that spoke to me. While I am different from you in many ways (I'm a guy, I'm not looking to get married, and my sexual desires while strong enough to make me uncomfortable around women don't seem to be as strong as yours) much of what you have written could as easily been me talking.
You seem like a fine person. (And you are a good writer.) Best of luck to you.
Since you've written that you wonder where all the female commenters went, especially those who comment more than once, you may be interested in knowing that I'm a female commenter, and that I commented quite a few posts back about remembering my years as a single as a "living hell."
One of your commenters on this post said, "I think a lot of women express this in terms of needing physical contact and affection, but it's physical contact that leads to sex that they want...:)"
One of the biggest shocks I got in entering menopause was that, as my libido decreased, so did my desire to be held. I had not honestly realized just how closely the two were connected. At this point, my level of interest in sex is so completely unpredictable that I joked recently with my poor, long-suffering husband that he never knows what he's going to get from one day to the next. But believe me, when I'm in one of my better moods, I understand *exactly* how you could feel that "Just having a man gently hold my wrist and move my fingers makes me hold my breath." There's absolutely nothing more normal. I pray that someday soon, a man whom you love will gently hold your wrist for other than professional reasons.
A. Nony. Mouse
First visit to your site- I've been hopping and jumping around a lil bit... I just thought I'd put in my two cents-
I think that women are probably less likely to post because many of them have broken the whole SN thing at least once. I believe that it's easier for orthodox men to refrain from that because of their surroundings at least till after kollel or yeshiva. Their garb/mannerisms are different enough that most don't have to go through the experience of adorable members of the opposite sex hitting on them on a regular basis (which doesn't necessarily reflect on a person that he/she acts like he/she is looking for attention from the opposite sex).
Personally I let almost everything I know and believe in slip out of my mind once and it's haunted me ever since. Reading the entries on your blog make me feel as if I don't have the values I thought I possessed- or at least that they may be well developed but are currently sans roots to keep em straight in the event of a strong wind. I don't know how many ''good girls'' there are out there who can identify with me on this but I'm pretty sure I have quite a bit of company...
Seeing you standing so strong after all you've gone through is really incredible. I don't think I'd be where you are now and that's so humbling that even writing this little comment is pretty hard for me. So in short I'd say that women might refrain from posting simply because they feel ashamed. I know I do.
i am female , single and had never been kissed until 34. i came upon your site by accident and more power to you . i agree with everything u say. i never imagined id be single and over 35 . i never would have imagined slipping in my frumkeit, but its tough out there. and very lonely. keep writing. i do think we as single frum women (and frum single men) have alot of value and if i not for being single i would never have met as many special singles as i have. and i would never have understood what we go thru. life is wonderful and such a gift no matter what. and believe me im no pollyanna. ive cried alot about being alone and thou ive been in a few physical relationships, not many and even though i have there is also the guilt of having one and being frum and single and really wanting marriage and children.
anyway keep writing . we're listening
First time I ever read your blog-
You are an excellent writer and so so detailed.
Many (especially men) would say its obsessive so its a fine line to being obsessive versus just exhaustive, on the subjects you write about.
Of course, I cannot read all the posts, its way too much.
I hope you will have joy in life, Anonymous
Speaking for myself as a man (non-jewish) I can imagine that men will especially relate to this blog. Normally it is the predicament of all men that they would like very much to have a sexual relationship but do not seem to have luck finding it. In the typical dating scenerio, the man is always ready and it is the women who pick, choose & (in my case) deny. So, I think, at least my experience as a man, we are very used to not getting what we want. I can remember quite clearly in my teens thinking that there was never any possible way that I would ever be laid!
Although I can't relate at all to the religious aspects of your sexual denial, I can very deeply relate to the denial itself. Perhaps that is why a lot of men seem to be writing here.
ps, I am a nice boy from Indiana! ha ha, though i don't work in an office, so I am not *your* Indiana boy!
I know of at least 8 women off the top of my head who are in their mid to late 30's, and who are either sn currently, or are married and were until they got married). Yes, I feel comfortable vouching for them. It is definitely a hard thing to do. I think it helps if you hang around people who feel the same way. Also, if the guys you're dating are on the frummer side, they'll also be less apt to make the first move, so it's a combination of self control and lack of opportunity.
I am 30 and never been kissed. I am a frum New York girl and went to Seminary as well. And yes, I am SN. I went through a few years of depression and stress that led to many difficult medical issues. Sadly, I prayed not to wake up in the morning so many times. The rest, I cried myself to sleep. I also wondering when will I find someone to love. I realized something though. G-d loves me. I know He does. Like a father loves his daughter. Sometimes, we don't always get what we want (as hard as that is), but there is a reason. Maybe we had to go through this to appreciate it when we do get it? Maybe there's something in our lives G-d wants us to resolve or improve on first? When I need comfort, I imagine the hand of G-d resting on my shoulder saying "Soon my child, soon. I am not doing this to hurt you. I only do things for your best". Its hard to have patience, but I must try. I have given up my life to be a frum Jewish girl and so I will continue sacrificing to be SN and love G-d unconditionally.
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