Comments
There are different kinds of people who leave comments on this blog and sometimes even the same person might have lots of different kinds of things to say. It is the magic of blogs and a gift from Hakadosh Baruch Hu that in the loneliest aspect of my life I can find a way to get feedback from so many other people. In general there are three kinds of comments from my perspective, the ones I love, the ones I tolerate, and the ones I cannot tolerate.
The comments I love the most are the ones that simply express support for me. Showing me that the reader has read my whole blog, was moved by it somehow, and is keeping me in their thoughts. I especially love hearing from people going through the same thing even though I would not wish this experience on anyone else. Another type of comment I love is the type where a person gives me advice that is actually good advice that I have never thought of before myself. That does not happen often but it has happened, and I appreciate it when it happens.
A very great percentage of the comments fall into the category of comments that I tolerate. This means that there is something unhelpful about the comment but I know that it is not the commenter's fault that he was unhelpful. I had this most when the blog first became popular and I only had a few posts and there were many things I had not yet explained about my situation. I cannot fault someone for trying to help me but missing the mark because they do not have all the information. At the beginning I also had many commenters who were not Orthodox and really did not understand where I was coming from, but they felt bad for me and wanted to help so I cannot blame them for missing the mark. I am happy that there are so many people in the world who want to help even if they do not understand how.
Sometimes a person gives advice that I try something that I have already tried. But I may not have written on the blog that I have tried it because I am trying to protect my anonymity. So how were you supposed to know? Or perhaps I have mentioned it on the blog but it is buried in a post somewhere and I know it is unrealistic to expect that everyone who visits this blog will carefully read every post before leaving a comment. Still it is the tone of some comments that bothers me where the commenter seems to think they know something about me when I have never said anything about it on the blog one way or another.
So I am not upset about those types of comments but I do have two requests for the future.
1) Before offering advice try to read as much of the blog as you can so you will be more knowledgable of the nuances of my situation. If you do not have time for that then I understand. I am asking because sometimes when you ask you recieve.
2) Please remember that I have a daily life that is unrelated to being shomer negiah, sexual frustration, or anything else on this blog. It is very funny to me that people think they must know what I am like only on the basis of this blog. Do you know I have been in situations where people talked to me about this blog without realizing that I am her? They say "I know you are not Nice Jewish Girl because you are ____ while she is _____" (fill in the blanks with whatever opposites you like) because they assume that the blog says everything about me.
According to people who have talked about my blog in my presence, I definitely live outside New York, I definitely live in Brooklyn, and I definitely live on the Upper West Side. I am obviously Modern Orthodox, obviously Yeshivish, obviously a baalas teshuvah, and obviously frum from birth. I am clearly intelligent, clearly popular, clearly have no friends, and clearly am a loser. Well I guess that clears everything up. :-)
There is the third type of comment which is the type I cannot tolerate. It does not happen often. I do not usually for example delete comments no matter how ridiculous I might find them because perhaps they will help someone else or just as a testament to the variety of people in the world.
However when the same commenter consistently leaves unhelpful advice in an all-knowing tone and then starts advising things that not only are dirty and dangerous and possibly illegal but also is something that I have said about 50 times in this blog that I will not do, then I just cannot take it anymore.
And so I respectfully request . . . no I take that back I demand that the person who calls himself NeedsABetterJob stop commenting on this blog. Do not leave a comment to apologize. Do not leave a comment to explain yourself. Do not take on another pseudonym and continue commenting under another name. Just go away.
But to everyone else, thank you for visiting my blog.
The comments I love the most are the ones that simply express support for me. Showing me that the reader has read my whole blog, was moved by it somehow, and is keeping me in their thoughts. I especially love hearing from people going through the same thing even though I would not wish this experience on anyone else. Another type of comment I love is the type where a person gives me advice that is actually good advice that I have never thought of before myself. That does not happen often but it has happened, and I appreciate it when it happens.
A very great percentage of the comments fall into the category of comments that I tolerate. This means that there is something unhelpful about the comment but I know that it is not the commenter's fault that he was unhelpful. I had this most when the blog first became popular and I only had a few posts and there were many things I had not yet explained about my situation. I cannot fault someone for trying to help me but missing the mark because they do not have all the information. At the beginning I also had many commenters who were not Orthodox and really did not understand where I was coming from, but they felt bad for me and wanted to help so I cannot blame them for missing the mark. I am happy that there are so many people in the world who want to help even if they do not understand how.
Sometimes a person gives advice that I try something that I have already tried. But I may not have written on the blog that I have tried it because I am trying to protect my anonymity. So how were you supposed to know? Or perhaps I have mentioned it on the blog but it is buried in a post somewhere and I know it is unrealistic to expect that everyone who visits this blog will carefully read every post before leaving a comment. Still it is the tone of some comments that bothers me where the commenter seems to think they know something about me when I have never said anything about it on the blog one way or another.
So I am not upset about those types of comments but I do have two requests for the future.
1) Before offering advice try to read as much of the blog as you can so you will be more knowledgable of the nuances of my situation. If you do not have time for that then I understand. I am asking because sometimes when you ask you recieve.
2) Please remember that I have a daily life that is unrelated to being shomer negiah, sexual frustration, or anything else on this blog. It is very funny to me that people think they must know what I am like only on the basis of this blog. Do you know I have been in situations where people talked to me about this blog without realizing that I am her? They say "I know you are not Nice Jewish Girl because you are ____ while she is _____" (fill in the blanks with whatever opposites you like) because they assume that the blog says everything about me.
According to people who have talked about my blog in my presence, I definitely live outside New York, I definitely live in Brooklyn, and I definitely live on the Upper West Side. I am obviously Modern Orthodox, obviously Yeshivish, obviously a baalas teshuvah, and obviously frum from birth. I am clearly intelligent, clearly popular, clearly have no friends, and clearly am a loser. Well I guess that clears everything up. :-)
There is the third type of comment which is the type I cannot tolerate. It does not happen often. I do not usually for example delete comments no matter how ridiculous I might find them because perhaps they will help someone else or just as a testament to the variety of people in the world.
However when the same commenter consistently leaves unhelpful advice in an all-knowing tone and then starts advising things that not only are dirty and dangerous and possibly illegal but also is something that I have said about 50 times in this blog that I will not do, then I just cannot take it anymore.
And so I respectfully request . . . no I take that back I demand that the person who calls himself NeedsABetterJob stop commenting on this blog. Do not leave a comment to apologize. Do not leave a comment to explain yourself. Do not take on another pseudonym and continue commenting under another name. Just go away.
But to everyone else, thank you for visiting my blog.
posted by Shomer Negiah at 6/22/2005 11:22:00 AM
72 Comments:
i know at least i for one, really really do appriciate what has been preserved here for posterity i've not commented much on the awfulness of the situation because like those whom have helped me have gotten to a point that each person in this kind of situation has their own baggage/particulars to work past and sometimes it feels like anything that is said, will pale in comparison to he pain and frusturation that is felt by anyone in this possition whether like my 20 (and scared of being stuck like this till i die) or in you're case the much worse 35. i'm hoping i've not said anything particularly hurtfull to you. but i do think that this blog is greatly comforting at least to me to know that 1 other people are in such a situation and yes there really are people hear (other than that small sample here who know and appriciate) who do care about such tzores.
i for what it's worth would like to say thanks for leaving this up for posterity. thank you.
NeedABetterJob-
There you go again. Did I not just say not to post? To simply go away and not come back?
You write you will not post for 3 weeks. I want you to not post again EVER.
Goodbye and good luck.
BS"D
You are to be admired for standing in your Truth, NJ"G.
I commented once in the past, but want to say that I think of you often and hope you are doing well.
In case this helps, I am also furious at NeedABetterJob for pushing himself in again where he is obviously not wanted. I'm so sorry you have to deal with people like him.
My best wishes and prayers . . .
If you're looking for all kinds of s'gulos you may get some good responses from commentators. I don't know that it will do any good but . . .
Your situation has parallels in some Christian communities as well.
I absorbed this same kind of sexual ethos growing up Christian -- An expectation that one would not be intimate before marriage, and avoid "improper situations" with women. I left Christianity because of the dogma, but the patterns of behavior had become a habit. Though I never new it by the name shomer negiah until I started learning about Judaism.
Like you I have mixed feelings about this lack of intimate contact. I would not take the advice of NeedsABetterJob and "get it over with". I think of sexual contact as too loaded with emotional and moral significance. But the tension is getting to me.
MaleAge28
I've just read your whole blog. A female Jewish friend, 30-something, single, living in Jerusalem, mentioned it. I (not Jewish) was single and lonely (and overweight) until my mid-30's. I was lucky that I was only mildly depressed, and only for a few months.
I'm not religious and there's much about your story I don't understand, but I really appreciated your honesty and what I would call your sense of responsibiliity. You seem to "self-obsess" (as you call it) not in order to make yourself a victim but in order to get a sense of what you have been or are responsible for. (I see also where you really are a victim of bad luck in the dating game - I used to feel the same and my dating pool was much larger.) Not many people have that attitude and I really admire it. You also act on this in terms of how you are dealing with comments and people's behaviour towards you, and I loved your advice on what to say to single friends. You strike me as a very fair person (that's a high compliment from an English person!) whom I would be priveleged to know.
Your Judge Butler's story from the concentration camp was incredibly powerful. It reminded me of something stressed in Human Givens (a psychology book which I found extremely wise and compassionate and sensible); all humans need certain things and their minds and bodies will go wrong if these needs are not met. I believe human touch is one of these things, and I wonder if you might benefit from having massages or beauty therapy treatments every now and then. And I also used to find that contact with affectionate children eased my soul. You are being in someway starved, and even if you are not yet in a position to feed yourself with the sexual contact, I imagine you will gain nourishment from other physical contact.
I wish you all happiness and commend your efforts.
Dang. I was so sure you were an MO girl from the UWS. Now you're simultaneously yeshivish, and live in Brooklyn and outside New York as well? Why not Dupont Circle, Kew Garden Hills, or Hendon as well? Too confusing.
Seriously, don't sweat the commenters. I was very impressed with your restraint in not deleting some of the more ridiculous ones on your previous post.
Shabbat Shalom
NJG,
I also would like to reiterate that as well as your posts, some of the comments have been helpful, interesting and instructive. Don't let the trolls get you down or stop you from speaking your mind.
Your posts inspire me in my daily struggle, and the knowledge that so many of us are dealing with similar issues does help.
Good luck,
TRK
Can you ban your troll? (Not sure what Blogger can do in this regard.)
What you CAN do is delete his comments. He won't come back if you just delete him each time.
You have no obligation to be nice to this person, and the way trolls work is that the more you show how uncomfortable they make you, the more they come back. If you ban them or delete them they go away.
have come across your blog again after seeing it about 6 months ago.
This time I'm really going to do something about it.
I was very impressed with the way you stick to your principles of SN and your honesty about when you don't keep all the mitsvos the way you want to. Something about your writing makes me feel that you would be suitable for somebody I know that would appreciate your principles and intelligence and warmth. I don't really want to go into details here and I could give you more details by email only I can't find your email address and do not want to give out mine in public.
I understand that offers like this may come often and it may be quite scary to answer them so I'll explain more about myself.
I am a married orthodox woman, hasidic of no one particular affiliation. I have a large family Boruch Hashem big ones little ones teenagers and grandchildren, kain ayin hora.
We have quite an open house to guests, mainly bochurim and unmarried men that come to speak to my husband, have a meal and join our family life.
We live in England and since I see that you are intending to visit europe, I felt that I must contact you.
On second thoughts maybe I ought to tell you more about the boy or you won't even bother. Basically he is now 38, good looking, medium height and very fit. He is not chasidic, but very religious,without being fanatical. He has a university degree and has a very broad knowledge and a good sense of humour.
I am not a shadchante- just haven't got the guts, , and I have never written on a blog before so this is a big move for me!
Here is a halacha you may find of interest:
(In short, loosly translated:) If a man is so sexually attracted to a certain Jewish woman that he becomes ill, he may still not touch her- even if he feels he may die. This is to protect the sanctity (and wholesomeness) of the Bnot Yisroel.
I kinda like the black and whiteness of it all.
Thanks for a great blog!
that halacha is not correct. it only refers to a case where "touch" refers to an inhearantly and unchangeably immoral sexual act. also refering to where to where the womanm does not desire it. in short that traslation is wrong.
Dear NJG,
I came back several times to your blog. Thanks for writing it.
I had many similar struggles in the past. It gives support to me as a male, that there are females with the same struggles. What does frustrates me is that I cannot find a way to know if we have anything else common.
Are you expecting from this blog to get out your frustration and gain emotional supporters only?
I think you could get a lot of appropriate dates, leads and contacts if you would find and announce here a contact person/mentor. Somebody, who will not release your identity to anybody but will serve as an address for inquires. She should deal with a lot of other singles as well, so it will not be obvious to people turning to him/her if they will be set up with NJG or another nice Jewish girl.
Another way to give us - males with similar struggles - a chance to find out more about you: let us know which of the internet-shidduch-sites you are member.
Looking forward to find a path:
FiddlerfromtheMoon
nice jewish girl: i've read many of your posts, and i thank you for opening my young mind up in many ways. I have two points to make:
1) This point has been made before, but i really never thought that girls think about sex, ever. You've changed the way in which i think about girls (although i wonder whether you are an exception and the rule is how i originally thought).
2) I am a guy who strives to be a "ben Torah" - young man who is dating and learning. And the difficulty i face is that i sometimes, (in fact lately much more than ever before) will have difficulties concentrating and will have hirhurim - inappropriate sexual thoughts. For a while. Aside for the prohibition of doing anything physical to myself - are you aware that it is prohibited for me even have such thoughts? (Gemara's lashon: kashim hirhurei aveira meaveira). Not only am i sexually starving, but i cant even allow myself to have the pleasure of even thinking about it - and i inevitably do and then feel terribly guilty about it.
Maybe women should appreciate the fact that (halachically , i think) its ok for them to explore themselves physically and mentally.
***If anyone decides to respond to this post, and i look forward to it, please understand that my committment to the Halacha is absolute; do not suggest lowering Halachik standards for a moment. If within the framework of the halacha something is called for , then there is room for discussion. Please.
Younger Guy, the issue that is on the table here is what does one do when there is no answer, no yeshuah to their problems. I am still looking for the answer to the issue of Tzadeek w/Rah LO. Which I see as a sub text to this blog.
If by Halacha, you mean the rote adherence to the set of rituals and behaviors that are the Orthodox lifestyle, bivakasha, but what is being said here, is that this does not work anymore for many people. The answer is always, daven more daven more. It's not happening and we need to get detailed and find real answer not platitudes.
i agree. the obsessions that the community has with one answer to 50000 problems is insane.
negiya, no negiya, touching or no touching...its all small issues compared to being faced with a 4 day weekend and being all alone, single and having no one to talk to, walk with, shop with or just connect with.
Being single is a curse. I hate it. and if your young, dont let 'her' get away just because she isnt _________ enough. Time flies and before you know it its too late.
It reminds me of the Survivor television show, where they have a rewards challenge, in which each player gets 100 fake dollars to bid on various foods. They dont know how many are coming, so they can bid the whole 100 on the first item or wait for something better. So the first few items up for bids are a sandwich or a beer...and some players big the whole 100 on the first sandwhich..while others wait gambling for the steak. But after 2 or 3 items the host says " thats it, games over" and half of them are sitting there with fake dollars and no food, and others are pigging out on a sandwhich.
Dont hold out for the STEAK...bid on the Sandwhich now!!
i 've been reading your blog, came over from persephone's. i'm 39, single, really want to be married, can't find anyone. i'm not SN, which leaves me a whole lot of playing around to do. i won't lie; i've played a lot. in the end, i'm still 39, single, and all alone for the holiday weekend.
nothing i can say will make you feel better, because i have tons of great advice that doesn't really work. i see a lot of myself in the words of your depression, and for someone who has also suffered from depression i know just how much it aches.
oh wait, there is something i can say: screw all the people who say perhaps you're not trying hard enough to find a husband. that you should pester your friends and their husbands every day, go to a ton of horrid events, yadda yadda.
i've been dating for 25 years. i'm fun, sexy, educated, successful, etc... where has it gotten me? well, i'm not married to a loser. i could have married any number of losers, but didn't. that's a plus. i wont tell you that you'll meet the guy this year, i'm sure of it, because i'm not sure. because, like you, i've heard the same things from people (oh, i'm sure you'll be married bythe time you're 30! or, of course he's the one!) and i remember each one like a well-meaning jagged little steak knife digging into my stomach.
all i can tell you is that you're not alone. not that this fact makes any of us feel better, but it's the truth.
Well done for expelling the bad apple. I can't help but wonder if NABJ was the same commenter as the Aish guy from before?
I also just wanted to say that it is hilarious that people have talked to you about your blog and not known it was you! Also, I was at a community discussion about "The Singles Crisis" a few weeks ago and your blog was mentioned. NJG, you are famous!
NJG,
I've been trying to post here for some time, but was unable due to some computer problems.
I wish to tell you that I'm so glad you posted a follow up. I (and others, as you can see) still think about, and worry for, you. (I'm still davening for you daily, just like I said I would.)
I hope you had a nice 4th of July and that things are going well.
Remember, you're not alone. myself and others can empathize with you very much and we gain much chizuk from discussing this with eachother. (for which I thank you again.) NJG, you're a special lovely, don't forget that!
I pray Hashem will help us all with our difficulties.
b,h,&E
p.s. {I see the hashkafik arguments haven't ceased and it seems that the issues have been very well covered, so I'll just back out of this new wave.}
Dear Nice Jewish Girl, until 120,
My wife was going out to the wedding of a classmate tonight in Marina Del Rey. The kallah is close to 40 and is getting married for the first time. Right before she left, she received a call from another classmate, an unusually tall girl. She is engaged.
Im yirtzeh Hashem by you. But much sooner.
Give up on finding a man, do what you need to do for satisfaction on your own, and enjoy life for what you can get out of it-perhaps your bashert is to not have one. Think about it-we can't all get married, and if you have been unsuccesful till now, what makes you think anything will change? That is why it is cruel of people to tell you to keep looking-would they tell someone who failed biology 101 but always dreamed of being a doctor to keep applying to med school? Perhaps-but I would suggest he give up on that dream and find something else.
Oh and younger guy-she is not the exception, most of us are that way-and if you learn you will see the gemara is aware of this. As far as what you should do-I can't say but a-try to keep away from situations that would cause this, and b-don't dwell on the guilt, that never helps.
halfnutcase-The gemara there does not even allow talking to her from behind the fence-although it could be because of the specific situation.
they talk about, in the gemorah there, that it is exclusively refering to cases where the man and woman would be forbiden to marry. because that story was about a married woman who he wanted to touch. it doesn't aply to any non-forbiden relationships. and indeed the missunderstanding of that is creating a great deal of tzores in the community.
Check again-it's left unresolved; even if she was single, the gemara says because of pegam mishpaha (and I think another reason was offered) it is asur. The gemara even suggests they should have married but explains that was not an option because since the Beis Hammiqdash was destroyed, nit'la ta'am biah min ha'olam (roughly-the pleasure of sex was taken from the world) and given to sinners-so once they were married he would not enjoy/desire-it would not help. It's in Sanhedrin at the end of Ben Sorer umoreh.
i'm awear of that. and that is resolved in a sense. look at it. study it and the mefashim. you'll see. the resolution is essentialy that if it is for a good/semmi good purpose, then it is ok and if it is for much more selfish ones, then not. look, you'll see. you just gave the resolution. people draw from that gemara some very very out of bounds halachot and interpret them wrongly. (i think even some of the mashkantim are based on that actualy if not most "classic" ones.
NJG-
Regarding bad apples--take the advice my Mom gave me when the bullies bothered me in school: ignore them. Delete the comments and ignore them. They are doing it for attention. No attention, they don't do! (Not that I followed this advice, mind you. But good advice just the same).
Regarding your blog--glad to hear that you are digging yourself out of the pit and thanks for the update. I have said this before, but you are not alone--there are many non-SN women wrestling with the same demons. I am right now. Even the sex life issue--honestly, do you really think the average non-frum single woman is jumping in and out of one-night stands? Nope! We are lonely and frustrated and dying for touch, just like you.
Find a life for yourself. Hopefully G-d will answer your prayers, but if not, you have got to look out for you. Do Europe!
I agree with you people take that gemara too far-and it can be limited, especially when we consider other gemaras I agree we don't usually go that far. But pashtus there does not indicate as far as you went (for instance, it seemed to me you were saying she was definitely not married; also the fact about her willingness is not mentioned-if she was truly unwilling, that could have been the answer as to why she could not marry him.)
Install Haloscan comments.
It gives you the ability to ban names and IP addresses for good - that way, you can block the comments from even appearing.
Good Luck with you soul-mate seaching.
Hi there!
I was reading another blog that referenced your's and I have just read your whole blog - but not any of the comments.
I cried at some points, I laughed at others.
It has been a VERY long time since I have read anything SO POWERFUL! You have written directly from the heart. It is all considered, eloquent and so touching (no pun intended).
It is hard for me to say this - but I suffered from depression a little while back too - and your comments advice on it (amongst the other issues you discuss) is so simple, basic and helpful that I will use this with others who may need help or those who need to understand what happens to people who are depressed.
Stay strong!! You are one of the strongest people I have ever come across - never lose faith, even if you sometimes stumble in the keeping of certain mitzvot - I know that the same happened to me and have taken strength from your frank and open discussion - I am not alone in that any more.
Don't change who you are because a-you can't; b-you are who you are because you are happy with it; and c-you probably won't get married anyway, so to turn everything upside down for a futile hope is destructive.
That was quite an arrogant statement that she "probably won't get married."
Who are you, anonymous, to say that?!
NJG, it may very well happen for you.
It's important to keep hope while at the same time making the most of your single life.
I found your blog very moving, and wish you find happiness and fulfillment.
I am a 25 year old boy, grew up in a black hat community (all my brothers are still in yeshiva) but am no longer religious. Despite trying very hard not to be shomer negiah for quite a few years, I only recently had my first kiss, as I am very shy with women.
But while I realize that I may be deleted for going off topic, I have one other thing I must say to all the defenders of the community that insists physical intimacy be reserved for marriage. (This is directed to some of the commenters, not NJG.)
How do you all think your gay brothers and sisters feel, knowing that not only can they never be kissed, but that their very desires for intimacy are considered perverted and shameful, even evil? Even by the most conservative estimates a couple of percent of the population is gay, which means there are certainly thousands of closeted gay Jews in the most yeshivish communities. These people have no hope of ever being kissed, and have no outlet for sympathy or understanding. Why does no one in the frum world (besides the Exodus-type quacks) care about that singles crisis?
Dude the Orthodox comm. is not going to change its stance on that issue anytime soon. There is not a real answer, but it might depend on the people involved and how 'out' they are. But I don't think such a couple would feel comfortable inan Orthodox shule but there are many gay synagouges where they could go. It's sort of like saying if someone is openly
sinning in some other area, would the Orthodox comm. accept this behavior, the answer is no. Even when there is financial donations involved if someone was caught as a crook and sent to jail, they would no longer accept these donations basically.
lila-I am also someone who will never get married, that is who I am to say this. I see how guys are and am part of the O community-the chances of getting married at this stage of life are very low. I am just trying to help here-the minute you give up on something that won't happen you find purpose in things you can accomplish. So when you turn around after 120 years you say-I did something, I lived for a reason-not maybe I'll get married right before they cart me away.
Also what I said before is true-if you try and try w/o success, chances are it won't happen (if you fail bio 101, don't apply to med school-get another job).
Anonymous, I see....
But it's also true that while you have hope, everything is still possible, and when you give up on hope - you simply won't see the possibilities around you. It does not mean that this hope should be your whole focus in life at the expense of all the meaningful things you can be involved in. I can say at least for myself (I am also from O-community, but somewhat older then NJG and divorced) - that I am happiest, and my life is most full when I manage to maintain hope for finding a good relationship, while being involved in many worthwhile endeavors in the here and now. Because relationships are important, no one can deny that. Hope you reconsider your attitude as well.
As to the advice given by somebody above to change one's behavior - in some cases it might (or might not) be appropriate, and it's possible to make small adjustments without betraying oneself.
Lila, Anonymous is talking about a very high level concept, that of acceptance. This is not easy for most people to implement. But the example she gives is faulty. Failing BIO 101 could mean several things. They could study for it, again and again for years until they pass, or they could study Accounting. This is in the context of a college student w/ a goal to get a Degree.
This is different for the problems facing the Singles. They have what it takes to attract someone, but have not been able to get a committment from someone or to meet that someone. It means that they are stuck, and they try other and new ideas. Some move to a new city or country, some take a cruise, a course, a new job, a volunteer job, etc...
Archie, I understand the concept of acceptance - “Tzidduk Ha Din” – it is right to accept one’s destiny when one is at the end of the road, but at 35 you really don’t know what’s ahead. It’s important to have dreams and hopes – remember Joseph? But I agree, at the same time one should be ready to eventually accept it if their hopes will not come true.
archie-no I think singles do not usually have what it takes-that is why we are still single.
Oh, LIGHTEN UP GIRL!! You need a boyfriend back...
I just wanted you to know that I am a single Christian girl in a similiar situation. I have not made a commitment not to touch men, however I have never touched one in any intimate relationship. I did not come to this decision by upbringing, although this played a part, or by situation although this also has played a part. It has mostly been my decision not to cheapen what I hope to be the best thing in my life - my relationship with my future husband, by giving parts of it away to the first comer. I believe that marriage is our Creator's physical example of the Messiah and His bridegroom, and I also hope to bring Him glory by not lowering this relationship and many facets of it with my actions.
I too have been given any number of suggestions about my singleness, both relevant and irrelevant, and have heard all the lesbian suggestions in the world. None of the suggestions has come up with a nice, single, theologically sound Christian boy to go with it.
I understand some of your frustrations; some of them, obviously, I cannot. I just wanted you to know that I do support your commitment to your standing about S.N. I find it refreshing.
In some ways, though, isn't this just like a serious relationship? You put time into, thought, worry, care, and sometimes you love it, sometimes you hate it. But you're committed, and you keep plugging away, regardless.
And humbly, may the God of not just Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but also the God of Sarah, Rebekah and Rachel bless you and hold you to Himself.
coral rose what u said was beautiful.
just found your blog.. it's really good... keep being yourself - i am not sure what the Hebrew or Yiddish term is for "be true to yourself" - but accept it from me in English... Kudos..
Jill
BS"D
Ameyn selah to coral rose...
What a beautiful blog. You rock Nice Jewish Girl.
-Dave the Ger
Dear Nice Jewish Girl:
I don't know if you are still reading the comments on this blog or not, but I wanted to write to you and I didn't see a private email address listed on the site.
I feel for you very deeply. Though I am not very religious, I am also Jewish, and had a lot of trouble finding my beshert.
It is so frustrating when everyone gets married in their late teens/early 20s what have you, and you cannot. You begin to think something is either wrong with you or society. You feel you will be alone forever.
My good news to you is that I doubt that will be the case. You have an intelligent mind, and that will help you attract men. I am sure you are attractive as well, as you have had several men intersted in you in the past.
The waiting is tough, I know, but you will find your bashert eventually. You must have faith in God and his plan. He has picked someone special for you, it may just take time for them to reach you.
I am sure you have tried everything, but I will make some suggestions. Be open to matchmakers, Jdate and the like. And just be open-minded in general. Yes, you may want a brown-haired guy, but what if your beshert is blond or red-headed? You may grow to like him too over time. If you've decided you don't like a guy after the first date, give him another chance. It sometimes takes longer for people's personalities to come out. Get involved in activities where you'll meet guys, singles events, online dating sites. Tell family members and friends you are looking. I wish you the best and please keep us updated.
I'm a little confused how a girl who wants to come off frummer than thou can be talking about her sexual fantasies to men.
You may request, or even demand that someone never read or comment on your blog again, but the written word on the internet cannot be protected from being read.
It's as if you would post sensitive information and expect the parties you don't want to know about it, to stay away.
The best you can do in a situation like that is ignoring the intruder and ask your loyal readers to ignore him as well.
NJG:
I have read (parts) of your blog. I find it very powerful. Your situation is very tough. I don't think that people really can add to it by leaving comments here because, while not unique, it is certainly not part of the "norm".
However, clearly you are not alone. Your resolve to stay true to your beliefs is nothing short of amazing. I am 32 years old and I got married at 25. While I would like to say that I would have "held out" until I got married, I'm not so sure....
I'm not really sure I have a point. I just wanted to write somethig to you. I wish you the best (as do most of the people who leave comments here - which certainly says something about you).
NJG:
I have read (parts) of your blog. I find it very powerful. Your situation is very tough. I don't think that people really can add to it by leaving comments here because, while not unique, it is certainly not part of the "norm".
However, clearly you are not alone. Your resolve to stay true to your beliefs is nothing short of amazing. I am 32 years old and I got married at 25. While I would like to say that I would have "held out" until I got married, I'm not so sure....
I'm not really sure I have a point. I just wanted to write somethig to you. I wish you the best (as do most of the people who leave comments here - which certainly says something about you).
And no, I did not mean to publish that comment twice.
What I meant is that everyone has the capacity to love and be loved (lovable). they may choose to be rude for example. We've all dealt w/ customer service people who are rude, and then those who are friendly as hell. Heck, I've been rude. Usually when I am angry or stressed. Just at that moment I could have let the bashert slip away.
That is my point. The person who is rude chooses to be rude but he doesn't have to be.
Hi NJG,
I'm writing an article on Jewish blogs for the Forward, and I'd love to speak to you. Your blog has clearly reached so many people -- it seems like a perfect example of the power of blogs to create dialogue between those who would otherwise never have the chance to communicate with each other.
I understand that you write completely anonymously, and I'm happy to respect your anonymity. I'd just like to ask some questions about your experience with the blog. If you're interested, please e-mail me at izzygrinspan@gmail.com.
Thanks,
Izzy
Wow! Just stumbled on your blog, and it's loaded! I admit I only read the first two posts and the most recent one, but I will try to read more over time.
So without pretending i totally understand what is going on, I will state that I feel SO MUCH for you. I mean, like if being single at 19 leaves us sometimes so horny and wanting stuff, I can't imagine the pain and need of someone like you. Your openess and honesty is refreshing and must be so hard.
I actually often wondered about older girls and if they didn't have the cravings I so often feel and i know lots of my friends do too. I guess now i know it's there, just not discussed.
Until I read more, I just wish you the best!
Shalom
This is the second time I’m visiting your blog.
The first time was about several (more than 6, less than 12) months ago. I read the entire thing. Every single post. I have a terrible memory, and I tend to read blogs way past midnight, so I don’t remember every word you wrote. But it was one of the most intense reading experiences in my life. My heart went out to you, especially because in a number of ways I was in the same position as you. Better in some ways, but worse in one: I was sure – absolutely, positively sure – that I would never get married.
Why? A number of reasons. For one thing, people have told me that, for various reasons I don’t want to get into here, I would never get married. People told me this when I was in high school. (They weren’t being mean – it was more like, “You need to change this about yourself or you’ll never get married.” Hmm, just read that over and it’s ridiculous. They were being very mean.) And though a large part of me thought they were idiots, a small part of me believed them. And then, a number of other things happened, again which I’m not going to get into here, but let’s just say that for a long period of time I was planning the rest of my life as a single woman. Not just as a mental exercise. I literally made career decisions based on the assumption that I would never get married. (I even calculated how much money I would need to make in order to live comfortably, by myself, without having to think about kids.)
This is the second time I’m visiting your blog. I haven’t read every post again, so I’m sorry if what I’m about to say violates one of your rules about mean or unhelpful things people say. But I feel like people should know – I wish I had known – that your life can change _like that_. Right now you are going through what you are going through (and I know how hard it is, and I am so sorry) – but in two or three months, you could have met the right guy and know that you have met him. I’m not saying you will (although I am saying I hope you will). I’m just saying, you have no idea how fast this torture can come to an end. It almost feels like I should have needed the same number of years I became single to become unsingle. But thank God, I don’t. Nobody does.
And that possibility – that in a couple of months your life could be very different – it never goes away. It’s always there, in the future. It’s not receding, it’s just moving along with you. Maybe it will be different from how you thought it would be back when you thought the world would end if you didn’t get married at 19 (yeah, that was me once – wow). And I’m not saying the years of loneliness go away just because of a happy ending. I’m just saying, the happy ending could be right around the corner. Could be. And that’s always true, no matter how miserable your dating history until now has been. (Not that I'm assuming yours is. Mine was.)
I’m also not saying it’s easy. Every real relationship involves pain, and working through issues you don’t want to work through, and it’s possible that some of those issues involve the long years of singleness (not that they caused the long years – sometimes the long years caused them). It won’t be like you were never single. But, iy”h, you won’t be any more. And it could happen so, so fast.
I feel like I should read your entire blog before I post this, because the last thing I want to do is inadvertently hurt you. But I know I’ll lose my nerve and not submit this if I do. And I just want you to know, because I wish I had known. Maybe it would have made me feel better. Maybe it will make you feel better. I hope it does, and I hope you find the right person soon.
Sandra
so sandra , my burning question is how old were you when u got married?
Hi
I've read your blog and just wanted to wish you well.
I have a friend who is Muslim who is now 35yo and who has never touched a man who is not a family member. She, too, is a professional, well-liked, loved by her family etc.
I want so badly for her to find someone and now I want this for you,too.
Can I ask you a question? In your form of Judaism, do women marry out of love (movie type love)or do they marry b/c they think the guy would be an okay math ...a good provider, religious etc.? I assume both but just wondering your thoughts on that.
Anyway, you are now incorporated tnto my thoughts and prayers.
Signed,
Bklyn
I think you've painted yourself into a corner. What was wrong with Conservative guys? You said, but it did not make much sense to me... Being a more religious mother than the father had even planned should make him honor and respect you even more. And just because a guy is conservative does not mean he is expecting anything from you during courtship. If it comes down to marrying a conservative man and becoming a mother, having children to love and teach -or- staying lonely your entire life, I'd choose plan B. By the way one other thing, you may not be sexually attracted to whomever you marry over the course of your entire life anyway. People marry someone who makes their heart skip a beat, someone who they could never get enough of, then one day, you realize he doesn't brush his teeth enough, or he doesn't help you around the house enough - a million things can turn off the female sex drive when you'd never expect it. Believe me! So don't build marriage up too much in your head, you'll be laughing at yourself within a year of your wedding! Hopefully the anti-depressants have taken the edge off of your sex drive for some relief, and I am wishing you all the best.
Did you try frumster.com? I would try sites like that with no limitations - any one of those guys would be great! Good Luck!
we all have thought of frumster.... Daahhh !!!!!
i would realy like to know
can you read hebrew?
can you speak it?
good luck
FYI, you're the opener in a story in this week's Forward.
Susan, But these things that turn you off so to speak from sex, do you tell him, or do you let yourself slide away from the passion of the relationship, bec. it seems to me that this original passion is very rare. It is there sometimes, but not often enough for me.
Last night we stumbled on your Blog site. Some things you fail to mention is how did you end up on the West Side? My family hosts people every Shabbos and Yom Tov on the West Side, and we would like to help you. Please call the Manhattan Jewish Experience and ask to be set up with the most popular family.
Hatzlocho
I have a question that I hope you will answer because I am not Jewish, and want to understand why you are making the choices that you are.
1. my understanding is that girls and women (and boys, and men) who are so religious that they choose to maintain this code of conduct are generally *arranged* in marriage with someone of the same belief system. And if this option is not available to you, or is not desirable to you....
2. why is it that this particular code seems so necessary to you (as I imagine that dating without any form of intimacy - not sexual, necessarily, but childlike intimacy such as holding hands, embracing - must be very difficult). Since most Jewish people do not subscribe to this set of rules, do you believe that you would be damned? and if not... perhaps it would be ok to be simply "good enough", if it means that you would be able to have the marriage and children that you want so much?
Obviously my comment isn't pointing out any new ideas to you... but I think it would be very interesting to know *why* you have constrained yourself so much, when it is making you miserable.
thank you for sharing your story, and best of luck,
m
NJG are there any updates?
I find your blog very beautiful and painful to read. I have long been very disturbed about dating in the Jewish community and the belief that if there isn't "chemistry" (I hate that word) immediately, then on to the next person, as if there is an inexhaustible, interchangeable supply.
I wish you all the best and all the happiness in the world.
Hi NJG,
I hope things are going well for you.
Anyways, I just wanted to drop by and say hi and wish you a good rosh hashona, yom kipur, succos, and all.
Hoping you are doing well. Haven't heard from you in a while, so I hope "no news is good news." Shana tova.
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